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Author Topic:   Growing the Geologic Column
Faith
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Posts: 34502
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 136 of 740 (734109)
07-25-2014 9:35 PM
Reply to: Message 128 by Percy
07-25-2014 8:18 AM


All da strata dey pile up an den dey get wrecked
I guess I can't get across why the geo column can't be growing on the continental shelves etc, or why the definitive strata are thick and cover a huge area. I don't know why, it's just a fact that they do, and my examples are those diagrams I've been collecting. Maybe I'll just have to get off the focus on the geo column and go back to the simple argument that the strata built up through all the time periods as horizontal layers BEFORE all the tectonic distortion and other disturbances deformed them.

This is what I've been equating with the Geo Column, but I'm more interested in getting across this picture of the strata building up and then stopping. In the GC GS area I argued that the strata look awfully placid just lying there for hundreds of millions of years between the Cambrian and the Holocene or whatever the Claron is, before all that massive erosion and other disturbance occurred. And everybody answers Oh well sure it's quiet for long periods in some places but not quiet in other places at the same time. Well, I am sure this is wrong but finding evidence for it seemed impossible.

Now that I'm finding all these cross sections that more or less show the same thing going on in widely distant places maybe I should just go back and focus on that and try to accumulate more such diagrams. They ARE evidence of what I'm talking about. It would be nice to find many from other parts of the world though, not just North America and Great Britain.

And all this would be an answer to your following remark:

I'd still argue that the true Geo Column was all laid down...But it's not something I can prove.

It's not even something you can offer a shred of evidence for, nor even a coherent perspective.

I think the diagrams I'm beginning to accumulate are evidence for this. At least a "shred." Perhaps if I put some time in on it I'll come up with a good collection of it. Maybe I should start a new thread to drive you all crazy with this project.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 128 by Percy, posted 07-25-2014 8:18 AM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 138 by hooah212002, posted 07-25-2014 10:29 PM Faith has responded
 Message 171 by Percy, posted 07-26-2014 9:08 AM Faith has responded

  
Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5428
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 137 of 740 (734112)
07-25-2014 10:16 PM
Reply to: Message 135 by Faith
07-25-2014 9:21 PM


Re: a partial review
It isn't a big problem at all. You are just wrong about it. The Siberian Traps are part of the geologic column.

And they are igneous. And 251,000,000 years old.


"The Christian church, in its attitude toward science, shows the mind of a more or less enlightened man of the Thirteenth Century. It no longer believes that the earth is flat, but it is still convinced that prayer can cure after medicine fails." H L Mencken

This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by Faith, posted 07-25-2014 9:21 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
hooah212002
Member
Posts: 3183
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 138 of 740 (734114)
07-25-2014 10:29 PM
Reply to: Message 136 by Faith
07-25-2014 9:35 PM


Re: All da strata dey pile up an den dey get wrecked
Maybe I'll just have to get off the focus on the geo column and go back to the simple argument that the strata built up through all the time periods as horizontal layers BEFORE all the tectonic distortion and other disturbances deformed them.

When has there ever been a point in earths history when there was no tectonic activity?


Organic life is nothing but a genetic mutation, an accident. Your lives are measured in years and decades. You wither and die. We are eternal, the pinnacle of evolution and existence. Before us, you are nothing. Your extinction is inevitable. We are the end of everything.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 136 by Faith, posted 07-25-2014 9:35 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 139 by Faith, posted 07-25-2014 10:59 PM hooah212002 has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 34502
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 139 of 740 (734116)
07-25-2014 10:59 PM
Reply to: Message 138 by hooah212002
07-25-2014 10:29 PM


Re: All da strata dey pile up an den dey get wrecked
When has there ever been a point in earths history when there was no tectonic activity?

Well, that's what I would have asked. That's why I consider it such a big deal to point out where there appears not to have been any such activity for millions of years, even if only in one location such as the Grand Staircase area. But when I've pointed that out here, the geologists have answered that it's no big deal if nothing happens tectonically for hundreds of millions of years in one location or another, so you'll have to ask them how that can be.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by hooah212002, posted 07-25-2014 10:29 PM hooah212002 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 141 by edge, posted 07-25-2014 11:14 PM Faith has responded
 Message 144 by hooah212002, posted 07-25-2014 11:35 PM Faith has responded

  
edge
Member (Idle past 94 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


(1)
Message 140 of 740 (734117)
07-25-2014 11:09 PM
Reply to: Message 132 by Faith
07-25-2014 6:07 PM


Re: a partial review
No, but thanks for the effort. I think really it's that I'm impressed with the examples where strata built to a great height before tectonic or any other force disturbed it, those diagrams I mentioned back on the other thread: the cross section of Great Britain, the cross section of a part of Utah, the cross section of the GC-GS area, ...

But your premise is not even true for even those areas. The Devonian-aged Old Red Sandstone overlies an angular unconformity related to the Caledonian orogeny of early Paleozoic age, all occurring at the time you had continuous deposition at the Grand Canyon.

These deposits are closely associated with the erosion of the Caledonian Mountain chain which was thrown up by the collision of the former continents of Avalonia, Baltica and Laurentia to form the Old Red Sandstone Continent- an event known as the Caledonian Orogeny. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Red_Sandstone)

And, closer to home, why do you ignore the cross-section of Utah that I showed you? I mean, the one that showed uplift of the Uncompahgre Plateau in the Pennsylvanian Period.

And yet you claim that nothing tectonic happened during those times...

Things are actually a little bit more complex than you think.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 132 by Faith, posted 07-25-2014 6:07 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
edge
Member (Idle past 94 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 141 of 740 (734118)
07-25-2014 11:14 PM
Reply to: Message 139 by Faith
07-25-2014 10:59 PM


Re: All da strata dey pile up an den dey get wrecked
Well, that's what I would have asked. That's why I consider it such a big deal to point out where there appears not to have been any such activity for millions of years, even if only in one location such as the Grand Staircase area. But when I've pointed that out here, the geologists have answered that it's no big deal if nothing happens tectonically for hundreds of millions of years in one location or another, so you'll have to ask them how that can be.

Except that we have show that there was deformation in other areas.

And the fact that there is no reason why a given location may lie dormant for long periods of time is a different subject. I suppose for an absolutist, your position is understandable, every place undergoes deformation or none do...

Edited by edge, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 139 by Faith, posted 07-25-2014 10:59 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 145 by Faith, posted 07-25-2014 11:35 PM edge has not yet responded

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 3957
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 142 of 740 (734119)
07-25-2014 11:18 PM
Reply to: Message 133 by Faith
07-25-2014 9:09 PM


Re: dating by magma sills and dikes
My only argument is that igneous LAYERS aren't part of the Geo Column.

Except that they are. As has been pointed out and demonstrated to you over and over again. All of which you claim to have found so confusing that you simply could not understand any of it. But your refusal or inability or fear of understanding extremely simple facts of reality has absolutely no effect on reality. There are indeed igneous layers in geological columns around the world and also in the abstract compiled Geologic Column. Really, what is your problem? Why do you feel that that simple fact threatens your religious beliefs so much that you have to exercise such a degree of denial?

Igneous rock is INTRUSIVE into sedimentary layers.

Yes, it is, but only where it is intrusive into sedimentary layers. And where it is not intrusive but rather forms layers, then it is not intrusive.

Here's an analogy. Chevrolet makes pick-up trucks. Chevrolet also makes many models of automobiles that are not pick-up trucks. You gaze out the window for a while (assume a window with a street view) and you watch as some Chevy pick-ups drive by. From that, you conclude and absolutely insist that all Chevrolets, without exception, are pick-up trucks. Even though a number Chevrolet non-pick-ups also drive by, you ignore them completely or else rationalize them away with something like, "They don't count because they're not really on the street."

That is exactly what you've been doing. All we need to do to disprove your contention that all Chevrolets are pick-up trucks would be to show you at least one Chevrolet that is not a pick-up truck. And all we need to do to disprove your contention that there are no igneous layers in the Geologic Column, but rather only instrusions, would be to show you at least one igneous layer.

We have done just that, shown you igneous layers in the Geologic Column. In reaction, not only do you continue to deal simple and obvious reality, but you try to change reality by concocting outlandish redefinitions of words. That is a lawyer trick intended to trick and deceive people and not a way to deal with reality.

When Emily Litella would do what you've been doing, everybody could see how ludicrously wrong her rant was and how she had absolutely no idea what she was talking about. But, unlike you, at least she was able to listen to Chevy explain it to her, realize her mistake, and say sweetly, "Never mind." You need to do a helluva lot more work on that second part of her act.

And just why do you find igneous layers in the Geologic Column so threatening to your theology?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 133 by Faith, posted 07-25-2014 9:09 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 143 by Faith, posted 07-25-2014 11:28 PM dwise1 has responded
 Message 147 by Faith, posted 07-25-2014 11:48 PM dwise1 has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 34502
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 143 of 740 (734120)
07-25-2014 11:28 PM
Reply to: Message 142 by dwise1
07-25-2014 11:18 PM


Re: dating by magma sills and dikes
No, it has nothing to do with my religious beliefs, how on earth could it. I just don't see how there could be actual lava layers among the sedimentary layers. If you are talking about a stack of all igneous layers I have no objection. The ones that were shown me a while back turned out to be sills that just happened to be very thick and extensive so they look like layers between sedimentary layers. I could not care less whether they are or are not, except that the usual situation AS A SIMPLE MATTER OF FACT is that they are intrusive into all the sedimentary stacks I've investigated.

Sorry, I just glaze over when somebody starts with an analogy that's supposed to represent my thinking, simply cannot read it so forget it. No idea why people do such things. SHOW ME AN ACTUAL LAVA LAYER THAT IS NOT INTRUSIVE INTO SEDIMENTARY ROCK.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 142 by dwise1, posted 07-25-2014 11:18 PM dwise1 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 148 by hooah212002, posted 07-25-2014 11:57 PM Faith has responded
 Message 151 by dwise1, posted 07-26-2014 1:45 AM Faith has responded
 Message 172 by Percy, posted 07-26-2014 9:59 AM Faith has responded

  
hooah212002
Member
Posts: 3183
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 144 of 740 (734121)
07-25-2014 11:35 PM
Reply to: Message 139 by Faith
07-25-2014 10:59 PM


Re: All da strata dey pile up an den dey get wrecked
That's why I consider it such a big deal to point out where there appears not to have been any such activity for millions of years, even if only in one location such as the Grand Staircase area.

Do you know what tectonic activity is? Is every point on planet earth a point where two plates meet? If there is an earthquake in Brisbane, Australia today, would you be able to see evidence of it in Omaha, Nebraska?


Organic life is nothing but a genetic mutation, an accident. Your lives are measured in years and decades. You wither and die. We are eternal, the pinnacle of evolution and existence. Before us, you are nothing. Your extinction is inevitable. We are the end of everything.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 139 by Faith, posted 07-25-2014 10:59 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 146 by Faith, posted 07-25-2014 11:37 PM hooah212002 has acknowledged this reply

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 34502
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 145 of 740 (734122)
07-25-2014 11:35 PM
Reply to: Message 141 by edge
07-25-2014 11:14 PM


Re: All da strata dey pile up an den dey get wrecked
Well, that's what I would have asked. That's why I consider it such a big deal to point out where there appears not to have been any such activity for millions of years, even if only in one location such as the Grand Staircase area. But when I've pointed that out here, the geologists have answered that it's no big deal if nothing happens tectonically for hundreds of millions of years in one location or another, so you'll have to ask them how that can be.

Except that we have show that there was deformation in other areas.

No deformation that occurred to a layer of the stack before the whole stack was in place. Your one strange example of Mississippian-Pennsylvanian defiormation certainly showed no such thing.

And the fact that there is no reason why a given location may lie dormant for long periods of time is a different subject. I suppose for an absolutist, your position is understandable, every place undergoes deformation or none do...

Simply comes from my observation, not some preconceived position about it, and I'm hoping to collect more evidence in the form of those cross sections to demonstrate it. Yours would have demonstrated it too I have no doubt except that the layers above the Pennsylvanian had been eroded away, so all we can tell is that those layers are now deformed. The erosion of those above is no doubt all part of the same scenario though.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by edge, posted 07-25-2014 11:14 PM edge has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 34502
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 146 of 740 (734123)
07-25-2014 11:37 PM
Reply to: Message 144 by hooah212002
07-25-2014 11:35 PM


Re: All da strata dey pile up an den dey get wrecked
Hundreds of millions of years, Hooah, hundreds of millions of years, from the Cambrian to the Tertiary, hundreds of millisions of years.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 144 by hooah212002, posted 07-25-2014 11:35 PM hooah212002 has acknowledged this reply

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 34502
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 147 of 740 (734124)
07-25-2014 11:48 PM
Reply to: Message 142 by dwise1
07-25-2014 11:18 PM


Re: dating by magma sills and dikes
Let me give one reason why there can't be an actual lava layer between sedimentary layers: we're talking a layer laid down in order, right, not a sill that penetrates between sedimentary layers already in place, right? So this lava is going to flow over the layer that is already laid down, right, nothing above it, right? So what are you going to get? A VERY LUMPY BUMPY LAYER OF LAVA, not those nice neat straight layers that were shown back who knows where now, with straight bottom and straight top. If and when another sediment deposits on top of it, the contact is NOT GOING TO BE STRAIGHT AND FLAT. That itself is a clue that it's a SILL, an INTRUSION, and NOT an actual layer.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 142 by dwise1, posted 07-25-2014 11:18 PM dwise1 has not yet responded

  
hooah212002
Member
Posts: 3183
Joined: 08-12-2009


(1)
Message 148 of 740 (734125)
07-25-2014 11:57 PM
Reply to: Message 143 by Faith
07-25-2014 11:28 PM


Rhyolite is alright
There you go.

Hell, there is even a town named after that rock type

quote:
Extensionally faulted volcanic rocks, ranging in age from about 13.3 million years to about 7.6 million years, overlie the region's Paleozoic sedimentary rocks.[10] The prevailing rocks, which contain the ore deposits, are a series of rhyolitic lava flows[11] that built to a combined thickness of about 8,000 feet (2,400 m) above the more ancient rock.[12] After the flows ceased, tectonic stresses fractured the area into many separate fault blocks.[10]

How about the Snake River Plain Aquifer?

quote:
The Snake River Plain is underlain by fractured basalt lava flows, rhyolite, and unconsolidated sediments. Interbeds between the basalt layers are mainly sand, silt, and clay, with smaller amounts of volcanic ash. Within basalts, permeable zones are mainly the tops and bottoms of lava flows, with columnar jointing in between providing slower vertical transmission of water.

Are you scared of research?

Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given.


Organic life is nothing but a genetic mutation, an accident. Your lives are measured in years and decades. You wither and die. We are eternal, the pinnacle of evolution and existence. Before us, you are nothing. Your extinction is inevitable. We are the end of everything.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 143 by Faith, posted 07-25-2014 11:28 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 149 by Faith, posted 07-26-2014 1:01 AM hooah212002 has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 34502
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 149 of 740 (734126)
07-26-2014 1:01 AM
Reply to: Message 148 by hooah212002
07-25-2014 11:57 PM


time-wasting irrelevant examples
What do you thnk you are proving there? The first example is of rhyolite OVERLYING sedimentary rock. No problem there. It's not a LAYER, hooah, we're talking about LAYERS.

And I can't decipher your second example but it's certainly not about a layer of lava between sedimentary layers, just a flow of lava interbedded with some sediments. I've many times said there is no problem with lava layers among lava layers. Putting some sediment into the picture doesn't make them sedimentary layers. So as far as I can make it out, this too has nothing to do with what I'm talking about.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 148 by hooah212002, posted 07-25-2014 11:57 PM hooah212002 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 150 by hooah212002, posted 07-26-2014 1:38 AM Faith has responded

  
hooah212002
Member
Posts: 3183
Joined: 08-12-2009


(1)
Message 150 of 740 (734127)
07-26-2014 1:38 AM
Reply to: Message 149 by Faith
07-26-2014 1:01 AM


Re: time wasting irrelevant examples
The first example is of rhyolite OVERLYING sedimentary rock

No, it is not. Can you not read? My first example is the source material for the picture. A picture which, by the way, clearly shows a layer of igneous rock between two layers of sedimentary rock. That is kinda what Rhyolite is.

It's not a LAYER, hooah, we're talking about LAYERS.

Every example I provided was a layer. All three of them. You're just too stubborn to actually read the little bit I provided. It's really not as difficult as you think.

And I can't decipher your second example.

It's a Wikipedia article written in the English language describing a town called "Rhyolite, Nevada". it is named as such due to the rocks. You should read what I type. It helps in discussion.

but it's certainly not about a layer of lava between sedimentary layers

No, that is precisely what it is. If you knew how to read, you would see that. But since this material is just a wee bit above a 4th grade level, I can see why you have trouble. The first picture I provided CLEARLY shows a layer of RHYOLITE (that is igneous rock) between two layers of sedimentary rock.

Let me break down that wiki article, barney style:

quote:
The prevailing rocks, which contain the ore deposits, are a series of rhyolitic lava flows....snip....above the more ancient rock.....

What is above those rocks, Faith? If you said "more rock", you win. What does that mean? That means a layer of rhyolite. What is rhyolite? Igneous rock.

I literally JUST learned all this...tonight. Why is it so hard for you? Oh, because you refuse to read things. How do I know that? Because you think I only provided TWO links.

As far as the third bit of quoted text, I literally cannot break that down any more. If you can't see that it represents a layer of igneous rock, you really are refusing to learn.

Let me give ONE MORE concrete example to add to the list:

Blackrock Escarpment

quote:
Several welded tuff layers are magnificently exposed in this 1500-foot-high cliff in Bruneau Canyon near the Nevada border. Each layer is rhyolite that erupted explosively from the Bruneau-Jarbidge region, an early active portion of the Yellowstone hot spot. The layers range from 12.7 million years old at the base of the sequence to 10.3 million at the top. They make up the Cougar Point tuff, a volcanic unit widely distributed along the margins of the central Snake River Plain. In a geologic instant some of these enormous explosions erupted many hundreds of cubic miles of rhyolite magma as tiny molten particles that sped across the land buoyed up by hot gasses, blanketing areas more that 100 miles across. Welded tuff layers like these are believed to lie beneath much of the Snake River Plain and Owyhee Plateau.

quote:
About a million years ago, just after Lake Idaho had drained away, the near-lake region may have been swampy and certainly had a high groundwater table. When basalt magma rose into this wet environment, as happened many places in the western Snake River Plain, large amounts of steam formed and erupted explosively, blowing out fragments of the basalt magma and the surrounding lake sediments. Such explosions are called phreatomagmatic eruptions; from them are deposited colorful layers of tuff like the ones illustrated from along the Snake River near Grand View. Also shown is the end of a thin basalt flow that was deposited during the phreatomagmatic eruptions. The thinness of this flow shows the basalt lava was very fluid, in contrast to the extreme stiffness of rhyolite lavas that permit only very thick flows to form.

Sedimentary rock layers showing volcanic tuff and rhyolite

Crossing the Shut-Ins, we encountered this cross-bedding in the sedimentary rocks above the rhyolite.

I know you won't read a fucking word of this because you are a coward and have no integrity.


Organic life is nothing but a genetic mutation, an accident. Your lives are measured in years and decades. You wither and die. We are eternal, the pinnacle of evolution and existence. Before us, you are nothing. Your extinction is inevitable. We are the end of everything.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 149 by Faith, posted 07-26-2014 1:01 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 152 by Faith, posted 07-26-2014 1:48 AM hooah212002 has not yet responded

  
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