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Author Topic:   Correlation between Anti-Gun v Anti Death Penalty Views
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1528 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 91 of 113 (735779)
08-24-2014 3:19 PM
Reply to: Message 88 by Dr Adequate
08-23-2014 6:31 PM


Peaceful protests get you no where, if you have no means to defend yourself.
... as General Gandhi said when he urged his troops to press home the final assault in the Battle of Delhi.
Gandhi's method can only work against a Christian nation. He wouldn't last an hour against the Islamic State or any totalitarian regime.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-23-2014 6:31 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by Coragyps, posted 08-24-2014 4:50 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 95 by Omnivorous, posted 08-24-2014 5:11 PM Faith has replied
 Message 99 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-24-2014 6:01 PM Faith has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 495 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 92 of 113 (735780)
08-24-2014 3:36 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by NoNukes
08-24-2014 2:51 PM


NoNukes writes:
Mram10 managed to get you to do his homework.
Well, the search plan was his.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by NoNukes, posted 08-24-2014 2:51 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9531
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 93 of 113 (735781)
08-24-2014 3:50 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by NoNukes
08-24-2014 2:51 PM


They used to hang people for stealing sheep, but sheep were still stolen, probably less than otherwise I suppose. Pretty much all the evidence though is that increasing the severity of of a sentence doesn't deter, it just clogs up the prisons and makes 'bad people worse'.
Not that politicians care about doing the right thing, they'd rather pretend they're tough.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by NoNukes, posted 08-24-2014 2:51 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 818 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


(1)
Message 94 of 113 (735782)
08-24-2014 4:50 PM
Reply to: Message 91 by Faith
08-24-2014 3:19 PM


Gandhi's method can only work against a Christian nation.
Gasp!! Are you suggesting that Great Britain under the Church of England was a Christian Nation??? They were practically Catholics!
Good to see you back, Faith!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by Faith, posted 08-24-2014 3:19 PM Faith has not replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 4001
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


(1)
Message 95 of 113 (735783)
08-24-2014 5:11 PM
Reply to: Message 91 by Faith
08-24-2014 3:19 PM


Faith writes:
Gandhi's method can only work against a Christian nation.
Hundreds of millions can thank their lucky stars that they were colonized, exploited, enslaved and slaughtered by Christian nations, who would later feel bad about it, and let them go.
It's another clear case of Christian moral superiority.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by Faith, posted 08-24-2014 3:19 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 96 by Faith, posted 08-24-2014 5:18 PM Omnivorous has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1528 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 96 of 113 (735784)
08-24-2014 5:18 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by Omnivorous
08-24-2014 5:11 PM


On balance it was a good thing for them, brought them into the modern world, and that was thanks to the Christian nature of their conquerors. I'm with Dinesh D'Souza, originally from India, who has argued that it was a good thing, and that the motives of the British Empire were infused with Christianity despite the expectable lapses into human fallenness. We're now being sold the politically correct line that comes out of Marxism, that despises everything western and particularly Christianity and makes up evils against it, and of course you've bought it.
But now we're way off topic. Can you find any reason except the basic Christianity of the British for the success of Gandhi's peaceful protest? Do you suppose that unarmed resistance would stand a chance against Islam or Communism?
abe: You could make the case of Tienanmen Square, but that could be chalked up to the fact that the world was watching, and the oppression has continued since then.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by Omnivorous, posted 08-24-2014 5:11 PM Omnivorous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 97 by Tangle, posted 08-24-2014 5:35 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 98 by Omnivorous, posted 08-24-2014 5:40 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 100 by NoNukes, posted 08-24-2014 6:20 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 101 by ringo, posted 08-25-2014 11:49 AM Faith has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9531
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 97 of 113 (735785)
08-24-2014 5:35 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by Faith
08-24-2014 5:18 PM


For God's sake Faith - empire was nothing about Christianity it was entirely about power, wealth and acquisition like every other empire there's ever been..

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by Faith, posted 08-24-2014 5:18 PM Faith has not replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 4001
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 98 of 113 (735786)
08-24-2014 5:40 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by Faith
08-24-2014 5:18 PM


I didn't buy anyone's line, including yours and D'Souza's and other right wing apologists' for slavery and colonization.
The great colonial liberations of the 20th century occurred during a period of rapid secularization.
Even so, a Great Britain exhausted by WWII acceded to India's independence largely because they were in no condition to fight another distant war: Gandhi's nonviolent resistance was not the only force in India.
God and King would never have let them go.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by Faith, posted 08-24-2014 5:18 PM Faith has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 368 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 99 of 113 (735787)
08-24-2014 6:01 PM
Reply to: Message 91 by Faith
08-24-2014 3:19 PM


Gandhi's method can only work against a Christian nation. He wouldn't last an hour against the Islamic State or any totalitarian regime.
Yeah, it's a good thing that people rising up against the atheist Communist regimes of Eastern Europe in the late 80s had all those guns, they'd have been crushed if they'd used peaceful methods. Of course you'll hear people talking about the "Velvet Revolution" and suchlike nonsense, but the fact is that Alexander Dubček had Gustv Husk executed by firing squad after the Siege of Prague.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by Faith, posted 08-24-2014 3:19 PM Faith has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 100 of 113 (735788)
08-24-2014 6:20 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by Faith
08-24-2014 5:18 PM


But now we're way off topic. Can you find any reason except the basic Christianity of the British for the success of Gandhi's peaceful protest? Do you suppose that unarmed resistance would stand a chance against Islam or Communism?
Well, the revolutions in Bahrain, Tunisia, and Yemen were largely peaceful and successful. While there was some fighting, it's pretty difficult to point to that as the reasons for success.
The breakup of the Soviet Union had nothing to do with armed uprising.
Here in the US, we can find examples of relatively peaceful and successful campaigns for civil rights, but the success is largely attributed to the US being embarassed internationally for not dealing with an issue on which most of the Western World was markedly ahead of the US.
And frankly, unless the whip was on your back, or it was your children being taken away, it isn't your call whether enslavement and colonization left people better off.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by Faith, posted 08-24-2014 5:18 PM Faith has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 495 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(2)
Message 101 of 113 (735799)
08-25-2014 11:49 AM
Reply to: Message 96 by Faith
08-24-2014 5:18 PM


Faith writes:
I'm with Dinesh D'Souza, originally from India, who has argued that it was a good thing....
Nothing is "a good thing"; everything has good aspects and bad aspects. Certainly, there were some good aspects to the British rule of India - they made the trains run on time, for example - but there were also some bad aspects.
The problem with colonialism and with oppression in general is that the oppressors have a different idea of "a good thing" than the oppressed.
Faith writes:
Can you find any reason except the basic Christianity of the British for the success of Gandhi's peaceful protest?
It certainly wasn't what you call "Christianity". The British had an internalized sense of right and wrong and Gandhi's peaceful approach appealed to that sense. An armed approach would have appealed to their sense of "putting the niggers in their place".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by Faith, posted 08-24-2014 5:18 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 102 by 1.61803, posted 08-25-2014 5:00 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
1.61803
Member (Idle past 1587 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


(2)
Message 102 of 113 (735808)
08-25-2014 5:00 PM
Reply to: Message 101 by ringo
08-25-2014 11:49 AM


Ringo writes:
Certainly, there were some good aspects to the British rule of India -
Hmm, Tea, Tonic & gin, IPA and on time trains.
As opposed to abject subjugation of the country.
Reminds me of that Monty python line
quote:
Monty Python Life of Brian:All right... all right... but apart from better sanitation and medicine and education and irrigation and public health and roads and a freshwater system and baths and public order... what have the Romans done for us?

"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by ringo, posted 08-25-2014 11:49 AM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
mram10
Member (Idle past 3586 days)
Posts: 84
Joined: 08-07-2012


Message 103 of 113 (735813)
08-25-2014 7:37 PM


I was hoping to find wisdom here, but sadly, FAITH is the only one with any.
For those that want to protect (or are) pedophiles:
Harvard Health
If we put those first time offenders to death, there would be far less children raped. If you want to protect those, I cannot help you further.
As for murderers, let's look at the bjs.gov website:
Recidivism and Reentry | Bureau of Justice Statistics
It was slightly higher than your 3%. It was almost 50%. Maybe the BJS don't keep track very well
Please explain how harsher penalties that rid us of recidivism, make criminals commit more crimes ...... logically please
On a serious note, have you guys been watching the news about the Christians beheading and crucifying those poor muslims!!! Sick ! Wait a minute ... I might have that wrong ....

Replies to this message:
 Message 104 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-25-2014 7:53 PM mram10 has not replied
 Message 105 by Theodoric, posted 08-25-2014 9:33 PM mram10 has not replied
 Message 106 by ringo, posted 08-26-2014 11:55 AM mram10 has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 368 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 104 of 113 (735815)
08-25-2014 7:53 PM
Reply to: Message 103 by mram10
08-25-2014 7:37 PM


As usual, your failure to use the reply button makes it hard to tell who you think you're replying to. Judging by the content of your post, you're not actually replying to anyone participating on this thread; but on the other hand the fact that you're posting on this thread suggests that you're under the delusion that you are.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by mram10, posted 08-25-2014 7:37 PM mram10 has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9277
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 105 of 113 (735820)
08-25-2014 9:33 PM
Reply to: Message 103 by mram10
08-25-2014 7:37 PM


For those that want to protect (or are) pedophiles:
You are a vile little troll aren't you. That comment should get you a healthy suspension.
Your strawmen are getting more and more offensive.
As for murderers, let's look at the bjs.gov website:
Recidivism and Reentry | Bureau of Justice Statistics It was slightly higher than your 3%. It was almost 50%. Maybe the BJS don't keep track very well
Could you point out where your link says this? Because it doesn't. Maybe they track well, you just do not understand them or know how to read the statistics.
Please explain how harsher penalties that rid us of recidivism, make criminals commit more crimes ...... logically please
It has been done already. Is it that you can not read or you can not comprehend?
And you finish with off-topic crap that has nothing to do with the thread. Why am I not surprised?

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by mram10, posted 08-25-2014 7:37 PM mram10 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 107 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-26-2014 1:01 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
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