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Author Topic:   Burials
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 305 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 10 of 94 (736325)
09-06-2014 7:30 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Leroy Jenkins
09-06-2014 2:27 PM


I don't really understand the point of proper graves. They allegedly help to remember the deceased, but I can't comprehend how looking at a rock in the ground helps to remember someone.
Well, it has their name on. Saving you the embarrassment of saying "I really miss ... whatshisname."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Leroy Jenkins, posted 09-06-2014 2:27 PM Leroy Jenkins has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 305 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 12 of 94 (736328)
09-06-2014 8:34 PM


I want a vast monument built out of the piled-up skulls of my enemies.
What? It's not like they were using them for anything.

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 305 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 24 of 94 (736361)
09-08-2014 2:55 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by Faith
09-08-2014 2:38 AM


In a way it strikes me as odd that someone who believes in an immortal soul should show any reverence to a dead body. That would be exactly like a bunch of atheists solemnly, reverently, and tearfully burying a man's worn out suit of clothes (while the man himself is still alive and well). Is there any difference? To the believing Christian, the dead-body is just so much cast-off fleshy clothing, while the man himself is still alive and indeed in a better place.
And yet your response, being yours, did not strike me as odd, coming from you; I saw that you'd replied to this thread, I knew what you would say: you would defend the traditions and customs of your culture by pretending that they are particularly Christian and all else is atheism and unbelief. It's what you do.

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 Message 23 by Faith, posted 09-08-2014 2:38 AM Faith has replied

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 305 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(5)
Message 33 of 94 (736379)
09-08-2014 10:33 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by Faith
09-08-2014 4:39 AM


I already read your post and was very touched by it. You've been through a lot and I feel for you. I don't understand what you are so angry about. Nothing I said related to anything in your post, it was prompted by the fertilizer and skeleton type comments as if one's own death can be taken so lightly.
But how is that taking it lightly? Someone who taught and presumably loved anthropology wants his skeleton to go on teaching anthropology and inspiring anthropology students after his death. Someone who loves the woods and the trees wants his body to nourish and nurture them after his death. I'm signed up to be an organ donor; someone who loves humanity wants to help people after his death. These are not frivolous things, no-one's leaving their body to be used for a practical joke. How about we honor people's humanity by honoring their individuality, and their wishes, and the things they loved? You write: "Sad that you're all willing to treat yourselves as trash." But what we're looking at is people who are willing to treat their bodies as useful, rather than just disposing them in a hole in the ground ... like trash. I think this is a point of view you might at least tolerate.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 305 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 40 of 94 (736391)
09-08-2014 7:24 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by Faith
09-08-2014 3:02 PM


ABE: To Dr. A: I personally can't wrap my head around the idea that being "useful" as fertilizer for the trees does anything to elevate either humanity or the trees, but sure, let people do as they please.
I don't particularly see how you'd elevate humanity by dumping me in a hole for invertebrates to eat me. I guess I'd be in a nice box, but I don't see that it makes all that much difference.
Anyway, if you do feel that that's what it'll take to "elevate humanity", please wait 'til after I'm dead. I don't like invertebrates or holes in the ground.

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 Message 37 by Faith, posted 09-08-2014 3:02 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by Faith, posted 09-08-2014 11:34 PM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 305 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 49 of 94 (736406)
09-09-2014 11:57 AM
Reply to: Message 43 by Faith
09-08-2014 11:34 PM


It implies to my mind a sort of reverence that cremation doesn't.
Well, yes, but the thing is it's your mind. Others might see it differently. Whereas what you seemed to be saying is that others are not being reverent, because they're not doing the thing that you would do if you were being reverent. I think this is a false criticism of them. Everyone is reverent to their dead, but how to do this is an individual or a cultural question.
Burial is a long-standing tradition in our culture, but some might see cremation as more reverent in that it protects the body from the rather horrible process of decay. It would be more reverent of them to practice cremation. "We will save the body of the person we love", they might say, "from suffering the fate of common garbage".
And in the end, surely the greatest reverence we can show to the dead, in choosing our funerary practices, is to carry out their wishes, not ours. If my wife predeceases me (horrible thought) I shall respect her by doing what she wants done, irrespective of what I would choose for myself.
In the end, reverence is in the heart and the head, it is not objective:
Darius [a Persian king] summoned the Hellenes [Greeks] at his court and asked them how much money they would accept for eating the bodies of their dead fathers. They answered that they would not do this for any amount of money. Later, Darius summoned some Indians called Kallatiai, who do eat their dead parents. In the presence of the Hellenes he asked the Indians how much money they would accept to burn the bodies of their dead fathers. They responded with an outcry, ordering him to shut his mouth lest he offend the gods. Well then, that is how people think, and so it seems to me that Pindar was right when he said in his poetry that custom is king of all. --- Herodotus, Histories, Book III, 38
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 305 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 52 of 94 (736413)
09-09-2014 9:41 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by xongsmith
09-09-2014 1:43 PM


When I was working for the Regional Planning Commission it was instructive to point out how open space needs to be preserved and that Golf Courses and Cemetaries were the biggest forces to do that, outside of state & national forests.
Though, proportionally ... isn't that like saying that outside of rainfall our biggest source of water is women crying at the end of Titanic?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by xongsmith, posted 09-09-2014 1:43 PM xongsmith has seen this message but not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 305 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 65 of 94 (736526)
09-11-2014 1:38 AM
Reply to: Message 62 by Faith
09-11-2014 12:05 AM


And [Jesus] said unto another, Follow me. But he said, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father. Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by Faith, posted 09-11-2014 12:05 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by Faith, posted 09-11-2014 1:49 AM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 305 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 67 of 94 (736529)
09-11-2014 1:58 AM
Reply to: Message 66 by Faith
09-11-2014 1:49 AM


And you too are making something person which isn't personal. What Jesus said to believers about letting the dead bury their dead is a whole other level from what a culture conveys about its view of humanity in its treatment of death.
So should we bury people or not?

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 Message 66 by Faith, posted 09-11-2014 1:49 AM Faith has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 305 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 92 of 94 (736720)
09-12-2014 1:08 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by Faith
09-12-2014 12:56 PM


Why can't there be different ways of conveying respect?
I think that's what you were meant to be explaining to us.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by Faith, posted 09-12-2014 12:56 PM Faith has not replied

  
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