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Author Topic:   The Search for Moderate Islam
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2105 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 76 of 432 (737082)
09-16-2014 6:55 PM


Link to article
http://www.americanthinker.com/...ious_moderate_muslim_.html

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" does not include the American culture. That is what it is against.

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by Modulous, posted 09-16-2014 7:30 PM Coyote has replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 77 of 432 (737083)
09-16-2014 7:30 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by Coyote
09-16-2014 6:55 PM


Re: Link to article
So Coyote, what went through your mind when you decided to post that? Did you think, hey Carol Brown who writes for 'The American Thinker', she's a good source. An impartial academic whose opinion should carry significant weight in this discussion!
It's a complete shambles, by the way. For instance:
quote:
Even more shocking: One in eight respondents said they think those Americans who criticize or parody Islam should face the death penalty
Meaning 7 in 8 didn't.
quote:
There was a Pew poll in Egypt done a few years ago -- 82% said, I think, stoning is the appropriate punishment for adultery. Over 80% thought death was the appropriate punishment for leaving the Muslim religion.
So 20% of Egyptians reject death for apostates, despite it being the word of Allah. And this is presented as evidence that moderate Islam does not and cannot exist? Obviously that conclusion does not follow from the evidence. Indeed, all it does is highlight that there are considerable Muslims who are more moderate than the extremist views discussed, which seems to me to be an own goal.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by Coyote, posted 09-16-2014 6:55 PM Coyote has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by Coyote, posted 09-16-2014 8:33 PM Modulous has replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2105 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(3)
Message 78 of 432 (737085)
09-16-2014 8:33 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by Modulous
09-16-2014 7:30 PM


Re: Link to article
With a billion plus Muslims, even a small percentage of headchoppers and other extremists is a lot. Too many in fact.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" does not include the American culture. That is what it is against.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by Modulous, posted 09-16-2014 7:30 PM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by Modulous, posted 09-16-2014 10:08 PM Coyote has replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 79 of 432 (737086)
09-16-2014 10:08 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by Coyote
09-16-2014 8:33 PM


Re: Link to article
With a billion plus Muslims, even a small percentage of headchoppers and other extremists is a lot. Too many in fact.
Can you explain how this is relevant to the topic?
The best I can make out of it is that you are saying there are moderate Muslims. Is that what you are saying?
Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by Coyote, posted 09-16-2014 8:33 PM Coyote has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 80 by Coyote, posted 09-16-2014 10:15 PM Modulous has replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2105 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(2)
Message 80 of 432 (737088)
09-16-2014 10:15 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by Modulous
09-16-2014 10:08 PM


Re: Link to article
The best I can make out of it is that you are saying there are moderate Muslims. Is that what you are saying?
When Muslims take over your town and tell you to convert, pay tribute, or die, get back to me.
If you can.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" does not include the American culture. That is what it is against.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by Modulous, posted 09-16-2014 10:08 PM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by Modulous, posted 09-16-2014 10:18 PM Coyote has not replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


(2)
Message 81 of 432 (737089)
09-16-2014 10:18 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by Coyote
09-16-2014 10:15 PM


Re: Link to article
When Muslims take over your town and tell you to convert, pay tribute, or die, get back to me.
If you can.
Are you here just to take potshots at Islam or to discuss moderate Islam?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by Coyote, posted 09-16-2014 10:15 PM Coyote has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 82 by petrophysics1, posted 09-16-2014 11:45 PM Modulous has replied

  
petrophysics1
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 82 of 432 (737091)
09-16-2014 11:45 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by Modulous
09-16-2014 10:18 PM


Re: Link to article
coyote writes:
When Muslims take over your town and tell you to convert, pay tribute, or die, get back to me.
If you can.
modulous writes:
Are you here just to take potshots at Islam or to discuss moderate Islam?
My guess is he is here to wake you up......but I don't see much chance of that happening.
In 10 years you can post as "headless modulous".
Do you have some reason why I should believe the crap you post from a group that says it's OK to lie to me to further their ends?
Get back to me.
If you can.
Petrophysics

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by Modulous, posted 09-16-2014 10:18 PM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 83 by Modulous, posted 09-17-2014 8:37 AM petrophysics1 has not replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 83 of 432 (737100)
09-17-2014 8:37 AM
Reply to: Message 82 by petrophysics1
09-16-2014 11:45 PM


Pathological liars
Do you have some reason why I should believe the crap you post from a group that says it's OK to lie to me to further their ends?
To be fair it's only the government and the media that do that, and they do it with alacrity. Everybody else is just slavishly repeating what they say. That's what happens when you trust donkeys, foxes and elephants. Being as you live there, you might try and do something about it, but you all seem content being lied to so who am I to argue?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by petrophysics1, posted 09-16-2014 11:45 PM petrophysics1 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by dronestar, posted 09-17-2014 10:01 AM Modulous has seen this message but not replied
 Message 85 by Jon, posted 09-17-2014 6:12 PM Modulous has replied

  
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


Message 84 of 432 (737109)
09-17-2014 10:01 AM
Reply to: Message 83 by Modulous
09-17-2014 8:37 AM


Re: Pathological liars
Mod writes:
To be fair it's only the government and the media that do that, and they do it with alacrity. Everybody else is just slavishly repeating what they say. That's what happens when you trust donkeys, foxes and elephants. Being as you live there, you might try and do something about it, but you all seem content being lied to
If only you would extend your notion to both sides of the Atlantic.
quote:
The man who reads nothing at all is better educated than the man who reads nothing but newspapers.
Thomas Jefferson

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by Modulous, posted 09-17-2014 8:37 AM Modulous has seen this message but not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 85 of 432 (737142)
09-17-2014 6:12 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by Modulous
09-17-2014 8:37 AM


Re: Pathological liars
Being as you live there, you might try and do something about it, but you all seem content being lied to so who am I to argue?
Is that how it works?
We're being lied to? By whom?
How do you know?

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by Modulous, posted 09-17-2014 8:37 AM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 89 by Modulous, posted 09-17-2014 7:46 PM Jon has not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 86 of 432 (737143)
09-17-2014 6:28 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by Modulous
09-16-2014 4:03 PM


The Vote of Moderate Muslims
I have no idea what you are talking about.
Of course you do.
Well it's difficult to find many statements about shared beliefs and practices of a religious group that is not a creed. Because that's what creeds are.
How about informal surveys?
What next, how about we discuss moderate Islam?
Of course. I've been waiting for that since I started this thread!
Jon

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by Modulous, posted 09-16-2014 4:03 PM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 87 by Modulous, posted 09-17-2014 7:36 PM Jon has replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 87 of 432 (737145)
09-17-2014 7:36 PM
Reply to: Message 86 by Jon
09-17-2014 6:28 PM


Re: The Vote of Moderate Muslims
Of course you do.
I honestly don't.
How about informal surveys?
Sure, what would you like to say about them?
Of course. I've been waiting for that since I started this thread!
Great. So the classes of evidence I seem to recall so far are
1) the existence of moderate Muslims
2) the existence of moderate verses
3) surveys
Anything else?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by Jon, posted 09-17-2014 6:28 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 88 by Jon, posted 09-17-2014 7:44 PM Modulous has replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 88 of 432 (737146)
09-17-2014 7:44 PM
Reply to: Message 87 by Modulous
09-17-2014 7:36 PM


Re: The Vote of Moderate Muslims
I had hoped you were going to address the survey.
Here is a plain link to the YouTube video, in case for some reason it didn't show up for you: It's Not the ''Radical Shaykh'' it's Islam - Fahad Qureshi
If you're still having trouble, I can type up a transcript of the relevant portions.
Jon

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by Modulous, posted 09-17-2014 7:36 PM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 90 by Modulous, posted 09-17-2014 7:49 PM Jon has replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


(1)
Message 89 of 432 (737147)
09-17-2014 7:46 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by Jon
09-17-2014 6:12 PM


Re: Pathological liars
Is that how it works?
Yes.
We're being lied to?
Yes.
By whom?
I said in my post.
How do you know?
Because some of the things they say are contradicted by evidence.
Are you really telling me you think members of your government, corporations and media are honest at all times?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by Jon, posted 09-17-2014 6:12 PM Jon has not replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 90 of 432 (737148)
09-17-2014 7:49 PM
Reply to: Message 88 by Jon
09-17-2014 7:44 PM


Re: The Vote of Moderate Muslims
I had hoped you were going to address the survey.
I was hoping you'd make explicit what kind of issues you had with it so we can discuss those.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by Jon, posted 09-17-2014 7:44 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 92 by Jon, posted 09-17-2014 11:53 PM Modulous has replied

  
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