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Author Topic:   Is the Bible the inerrant word of God? Or is it the words of men?
djufo
Member (Idle past 1708 days)
Posts: 55
From: FL
Joined: 10-02-2014


Message 121 of 2241 (738329)
10-08-2014 11:11 PM


Ringo, although defective, your logic is on the right path. You're right when you say that nobody has the truth. Base on that principle, you put on the table all the different possibilities and modern streams, and see which one makes more sense. Then you start researching and studying that one.
    
Percy
Member
Posts: 18842
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 122 of 2241 (738342)
10-09-2014 7:22 AM
Reply to: Message 120 by djufo
10-08-2014 11:06 PM


djufo writes:

Christianity monoteist was invented by constantine in the 5th century AD.

By "Christianity monoteist" do you mean Christian monotheism? I'm not aware of much Christian monotheism, unless you're thinking of religions like Unitarianism. The beginnings of Christianity's trinity trace back to the Constantine's Council of Nicaea (4th century AD, not 5th) where Jesus's codivinity with God was declared.

If these beings really existed, and were traveling from one continent to other, and from earth to orbit back and forth, they HAVE to be wearing some sort of special suits and helmets that is inconceivable for us to understand or imagine. Now imagine a 2,000-3,000 year old human how ion the world would understand, even worst explain what he was seeing. An ancient human will try to exemplify it with the closest thing known to him. In this case, a serpent head with a plummed body.

Ancient astronauts? Seriously? At least it explains your interest in the Book of Enoch.

Percy, yes all the ancient texts contradict the belief of modern Christian religion for the same reason stated before that Christian religion was an invention by man. It is not the truth. Or at least, not the whole clear picture. Just part of it is used and by the way was imposed by the sword to create some sort of control on the society and power for authorities.

I guess I'm still looking for where evidence informs your judgment of what is true and what is not.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 120 by djufo, posted 10-08-2014 11:06 PM djufo has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 123 by Thugpreacha, posted 10-09-2014 8:21 AM Percy has responded

    
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12787
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 123 of 2241 (738344)
10-09-2014 8:21 AM
Reply to: Message 122 by Percy
10-09-2014 7:22 AM


3 in one

I realize that Trinitarianism is confusing, but we see it as monotheistic.


...."When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by Percy, posted 10-09-2014 7:22 AM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 124 by Percy, posted 10-09-2014 8:30 AM Thugpreacha has not yet responded
 Message 125 by Theodoric, posted 10-09-2014 8:58 AM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 18842
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 124 of 2241 (738346)
10-09-2014 8:30 AM
Reply to: Message 123 by Thugpreacha
10-09-2014 8:21 AM


Re: 3 in one
Phat writes:

I realize that Trinitarianism is confusing, but we see it as monotheistic.

Trinitarianism is more entertaining than confusing, for instance when trinitarians try to explain how when God says, "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased," or when Jesus cries out, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" it's not just God talking to himself.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 123 by Thugpreacha, posted 10-09-2014 8:21 AM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 126 by GDR, posted 10-09-2014 9:01 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply
 Message 127 by Faith, posted 10-09-2014 10:10 AM Percy has responded
 Message 130 by Faith, posted 10-09-2014 10:53 AM Percy has responded

    
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6551
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 125 of 2241 (738350)
10-09-2014 8:58 AM
Reply to: Message 123 by Thugpreacha
10-09-2014 8:21 AM


Re: 3 in one
The leaps and contortions christians will go through in order to rationalize is amazing. Don't get me start on catholic transubstantiation.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 123 by Thugpreacha, posted 10-09-2014 8:21 AM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

    
GDR
Member
Posts: 4960
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 126 of 2241 (738351)
10-09-2014 9:01 AM
Reply to: Message 124 by Percy
10-09-2014 8:30 AM


Re: 3 in one
Percy writes:

Trinitarianism is more entertaining than confusing, for instance when trinitarians try to explain how when God says, "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased," or when Jesus cries out, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" it's not just God talking to himself.

I think it becomes clearer in the first chapter of the Gospel of John. Essentially John tells us that the "Word" or the wisdom of God became flesh. In other words Jesus perfectly embodied the nature of God with His understanding of how God's love for His creation is supposed to play out in our lives. The Holy Spirit is the connection between us in our Earthly dimension and God in His heavenly dimension.

That at least is how I get my head around it.


He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.

Micah 6:8


This message is a reply to:
 Message 124 by Percy, posted 10-09-2014 8:30 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 32898
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 127 of 2241 (738353)
10-09-2014 10:10 AM
Reply to: Message 124 by Percy
10-09-2014 8:30 AM


Re: 3 in one
Phat's diagram says it well enough: Three Persons in One God.

And this is based directly on scripture, where verses that show three separate Persons each with the attributes of God, are demonstrated, such as HERE

But Jesus is also Man, remember, who can talk to God from the point of view of a man.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 124 by Percy, posted 10-09-2014 8:30 AM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 128 by Percy, posted 10-09-2014 10:29 AM Faith has responded
 Message 131 by Theodoric, posted 10-09-2014 11:47 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 18842
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 128 of 2241 (738354)
10-09-2014 10:29 AM
Reply to: Message 127 by Faith
10-09-2014 10:10 AM


Re: 3 in one
It's matters not to me what people believe privately, but when they publicly offer their unevidenced rationales they shouldn't expect others to respond, "Oh, that makes perfect sense." If it makes sense to you that's all you should require.

--Percy


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 Message 127 by Faith, posted 10-09-2014 10:10 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 129 by Faith, posted 10-09-2014 10:43 AM Percy has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 32898
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 129 of 2241 (738355)
10-09-2014 10:43 AM
Reply to: Message 128 by Percy
10-09-2014 10:29 AM


Re: 3 in one
It's matters not to me what people believe privately, but when they publicly offer their unevidenced rationales they shouldn't expect others to respond, "Oh, that makes perfect sense." If it makes sense to you that's all you should require.

I just gave you a ton of evidence, and if you haven't tried to understand it how do you know if it makes sense or not? However, you are not, of course, obliged to consider it if you don't want to.

But you nevertheless feel free to oblige me to require no more than it make sense to me? Where do you get the authority to tell me I should be content with what makes sense to me and not try to persuade others of these things?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 128 by Percy, posted 10-09-2014 10:29 AM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 132 by Percy, posted 10-09-2014 12:06 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 32898
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 130 of 2241 (738356)
10-09-2014 10:53 AM
Reply to: Message 124 by Percy
10-09-2014 8:30 AM


Re: 3 in one
Plus, of course, you feel free to ridicule the Trinitarian concept while requiring that I not try to prove you wrong.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 124 by Percy, posted 10-09-2014 8:30 AM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 133 by Percy, posted 10-09-2014 12:13 PM Faith has responded

    
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6551
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 131 of 2241 (738358)
10-09-2014 11:47 AM
Reply to: Message 127 by Faith
10-09-2014 10:10 AM


Re: 3 in one
Those are some pretty impressive logistical and intellectual gymnastics you need to perform in order to get the meaning you want out of the actual lines in the bible.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by Faith, posted 10-09-2014 10:10 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 18842
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 132 of 2241 (738364)
10-09-2014 12:06 PM
Reply to: Message 129 by Faith
10-09-2014 10:43 AM


Re: 3 in one
Faith writes:

I just gave you a ton of evidence,...

No, you provided no evidence. What you did was offer a very brief and unevidenced rationale plus a link to a religious apologetics webpage of 7000 words. If there's evidence you didn't describe it.

But you nevertheless feel free to oblige me to require no more than it make sense to me? Where do you get the authority to tell me I should be content with what makes sense to me and not try to persuade others of these things?

As I said, if you're going to publicly claim your rationale is evidenced and makes sense then you can't reasonably object when people merely call attention to the fact that there's neither evidence nor logic.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 129 by Faith, posted 10-09-2014 10:43 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 18842
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 133 of 2241 (738365)
10-09-2014 12:13 PM
Reply to: Message 130 by Faith
10-09-2014 10:53 AM


Re: 3 in one
Faith writes:

Plus, of course, you feel free to ridicule the Trinitarian concept while requiring that I not try to prove you wrong.

You're welcome to prove me wrong to your heart's content. I suggest you do it in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 130 by Faith, posted 10-09-2014 10:53 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 134 by Faith, posted 10-09-2014 12:33 PM Percy has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 32898
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 134 of 2241 (738366)
10-09-2014 12:33 PM
Reply to: Message 133 by Percy
10-09-2014 12:13 PM


Re: 3 in one
http://www.evcforum.net/dm.php?control=msg&m=703741

http://www.evcforum.net/dm.php?control=msg&m=695580

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 133 by Percy, posted 10-09-2014 12:13 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 136 by Theodoric, posted 10-09-2014 12:50 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 137 by Percy, posted 10-09-2014 1:48 PM Faith has responded

    
djufo
Member (Idle past 1708 days)
Posts: 55
From: FL
Joined: 10-02-2014


Message 135 of 2241 (738368)
10-09-2014 12:45 PM


The confusion comes again from lack of information. You guys are basing your conclusions and guesses on religion. You're not going to find anything there. To picture you how vague just the bible is, imagine I sumarize for you the whole Star Wars saga in one piece of paper. Will you understand the whole movie? No. You won't have an idea of what a hell I'm talking about. Same happens with religion. The bible is a few hundred pages summarizing thousands and thousand of years of history. Or perhaps even billions of years because the genesis includes the formation of the solar system that in reality comes from the Babylonian tablets enuma elish or 7 tablets of creation which explain the cosmic collision that have birth to the present earth.

In the case of God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit, that God name is Enki. His son, ningizhida, expert in spiritual manipulation, reincarnation, resurrection, was artificially inseminated in a female human. Known as Mary in history. Jesus, is ninghizida. Toth for Egyptians, Hermes for Greeks, Quetzalcoatl for Aztecs, kukulcan for Mayans. Same deities, different names.
Jesus was the last attempt by them to change the course of human civilization. Although Jesus succeeded to some degree, he was brutally assassinated by humans, but of course rescued and resurrected.


    
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