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Author Topic:   Human Induced Global warming is just another conjob for the ignorant.
RAZD
Member (Idle past 336 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 12 of 65 (716120)
01-12-2014 3:42 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by jar
01-12-2014 1:33 PM


Re: Why?
We know humans engage in activities that increase the things that increase the overall average temperature of the earth.

The question is whether we can convert to activities that can decrease the things that affect the overall ave temp.

People talk about how expensive it will be.

How expensive will it be to move everybody out of flood areas from rising seas, how expensive will it be to deal with the aftermath of more energetic storms? What will be the costs of altered climate patterns on crops and living areas?

Let's do something -- moving to higher ground seems simple, but then look at how much that entails.

Or do we say tough it out, let those who are not prepared to meet the changes die? That would probably make a serious dent in the overpopulation problem ...


we are limited in our ability to understand
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 336 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 13 of 65 (716121)
01-12-2014 3:48 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by nwr
01-12-2014 3:35 PM


Re: Why?
This is stupendously stupid reasoning. It must be that Randroid nonsense.

Sounds like Faux Noise ...

Damn! I really need that "jeer" button.

Make your own ... in this case ?


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RAZD
Member (Idle past 336 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 16 of 65 (716124)
01-12-2014 4:24 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by NosyNed
01-12-2014 4:12 PM


CO2 at record levels
http://news.yahoo.com/...s-annual-record-high-112637382.html

quote:
GENEVA (AP) — World carbon dioxide pollution levels in the atmosphere are accelerating and reached a record high in 2012, the U.N. weather agency said Wednesday.

The heat-trapping gas, pumped into the air by cars and smokestacks, was measured at 393.1 parts per million last year, up 2.2 ppm from the previous year, said the Geneva-based World Meteorological Organization in its annual greenhouse gas inventory.

That is far beyond the 350 ppm that some scientists and environmental groups promote as the absolute upper limit for a safe level.


We know we produce a massive amount of CO2 -- enough that it affects 14C readings for modern materials, and that this production has been accelerating since the beginning of the industrial age.

We also know that we can reduce this and can make systems to remove it from the atmosphere.


we are limited in our ability to understand
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 336 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 24 of 65 (716323)
01-14-2014 5:40 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by ramoss
01-14-2014 4:03 PM


Re: Why?
... It won't be unless there is immediate economic reasons to do it that people will. It has to be good for their short term economic issues, because they won't believe the long term issues ...

There may well be no economy when that happens. Consider the effects we saw of a few bankers causing near world wide economic collapse.

I am afraid that we will need to learn to base decisions on something other than bottom dollars ... something like social justice perhaps.


we are limited in our ability to understand
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Rebel American Zen Deist
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 336 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 25 of 65 (716325)
01-14-2014 5:48 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by ramoss
01-14-2014 4:17 PM


Quinone batteries
There are a lot of exciting technologies that are showing up.. and one or the other is likely to succeed (much to the oil companies dismay).

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1976ips..sympV....B

quote:
Rechargeable quinone battery for load levelling
Binder, H.; Knoedler, R.; Koehling, A.; Sandstede, G.; Walter, G.
International Power Sources Symposium Committee, International Power Sources Symposium, 10th, Brighton, England, Sept. 13-16, 1976, Paper. 10 p.

A rechargeable battery system with solid quinones as active masses, which are insoluble in acids, is described. Oxanthranol (anthrahydroquinone) is used for the negative plate, and chloranil (tetrachloro-p-benzoquinone) for the positive plate. Overvoltage is small in the charge and discharge modes even at high current densities. More than 90% of the quinones can be utilized at a discharge rate of 10 h. For a laboratory model with a storage capacity of about 20 mA h/sq cm, a current yield of about 98% and an energy yield of about 90% were measured at a discharge rate of about 10 h. Lifetime does not appear to be limited by deep discharges or quick recharges. After more than 100 cycles, electrodes with chloranil showed no loss in capacity.


And they should be cheaper than metal batteries.


we are limited in our ability to understand
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Rebel American Zen Deist
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 336 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 35 of 65 (716487)
01-17-2014 3:56 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by Larni
01-17-2014 11:33 AM


This is what global climate change looks like ...
It will make some rich folks poorer?

And how is that bad for the rest (99%) of us?

http://gawker.com/...y-weather-predicted-for-enti-1502840883

quote:
As California Burns, Hot Dry Weather Predicted For Entirety of "Winter"

Here's some terrible news to mark the beginning of permanent fire season in California: It's going to stay like this, hot and dry, until May. The Climate Prediction Center says winter will come and go without the usual winter storms that provide the snowpack that provides all the water people use. Fire conditions will be awful until summer, when they will continue being awful until next winter, if winter ever shows up again.

With 2013 already on record as the driest year in recorded California history, the exact last thing we need is another winter without rain and snow. But that's what 2014 is forecast to be, at least through the crucial January-May rainy season.


Not good news.


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
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This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 336 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(2)
Message 45 of 65 (716580)
01-19-2014 10:26 AM
Reply to: Message 44 by Dogmafood
01-19-2014 9:57 AM


Re: Repent! The end is nigh!
... Would our days get appreciably shorter due to having more weight at the equator?

Would we?

Assuming this is true it would be like a spinning figure skater spreading their arms -- slower rotation rate.


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 336 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 47 of 65 (717570)
01-29-2014 8:46 AM
Reply to: Message 46 by Dr Adequate
01-28-2014 6:07 PM


Re: xkcd

Yay RI Senator Whitehouse


we are limited in our ability to understand
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Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


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RAZD
Member (Idle past 336 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 52 of 65 (719116)
02-11-2014 2:26 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by NosyNed
02-11-2014 12:45 PM


Re: Doomed doomed de doomed doomed
http://www.salon.com/...port_on_the_end_of_the_world_partner

quote:
The media’s apocalypse problem: How do you report on the end of the world?

Here’s the scoop: When it comes to climate change, there is no “story,” not in the normal news sense anyway.

The fact that 97% of scientists who have weighed in on the issue believe that climate change is a human-caused phenomenon is not a story. That only one of 9,137 peer-reviewed papers on climate change published between November 2012 and December 2013 rejected human causation is not a story either, nor is the fact that only 24 out of 13,950 such articles did so over 21 years. That the anything-but-extreme Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) offers an at least 95% guarantee of human causation for global warming is not a story, nor is the recent revelation that IPCC experts believe we only have 15 years left to rein in carbon emissions or ...

What makes climate change so challenging is that the carbon dioxide (and methane) being generated by the extraction, production, and burning of fossil fuels supports the most profitable corporations in history, ...

In fact, one of the grim wonders of climate change has been the ability of Big Energy and its lobbyists to politicize an issue that wouldn’t normally have a “left” or “right,” and to make bad science into an ongoing news story. In other words, an achievement that couldn’t be morecriminal in nature has also been their great coup de théâtre.


People would rather watch sports.


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 336 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 53 of 65 (719762)
02-17-2014 5:24 PM


Bill Nye The Science Guy take on (airhead?) politician denier.
From

quote:
http://www.salon.com/...s_show_host_bill_nye_the_science_guy

quote:
This Sunday, “Meet the Press,” the renowned televised political news forum, will host a discussion of climate change — perhaps the single most pressing issue of our time — featuring a professional children’s entertainer and a Republican member of Congress. Yes, David Gregory will be refereeing a “debate” — their word — between “Bill Nye ‘The Science Guy’ and Tennessee Republican Congresswoman Marsha Blackburn, Vice Chair of the House Energy and Commerce Committee.” Nye will be arguing the pro (climate change is real and bad) and Blackburn will be arguing the anti (climate change is made up and not bad).

Get your popcorn ready, this should be good.


Now the results are in:

“Meet the Press” to host climate change “debate” between GOP’s Marsha Blackburn and Bill Nye “the Science Guy”

quote:
What’s insulting (and insane) is that there is to be a “debate” at all, on one of America’s supposed premier news talk shows. What’s scary is that the side of this debate that is wrong, and that is wrong in a way that will very probably lead to worldwide disaster in a few generations, is taken seriously because it is the side taken by one of America’s two dominant political parties.

Watch it HERE

Rep. Marsha Blackburn: "we have done something" (lists a bunch of laws to reduce greenhouse gases) "we voted no" -- yep, republicans think that voting no is doing something.

Really?

I have a couple of questions for Rep Blackburn:

  1. when your house is burning should you have a cost-benefit analysis done by the insurance company before beginning to fight the fire?
  2. how do you measure the cost of doing nothing when
    1. the costs of cleanup from Katrina are not fully known because they are ongoing
    2. the costs of cleanup from Sandy are not fully known because they are ongoing
    3. the costs of drought in California are not fully known because they are ongoing
    4. the costs of forest fires in the west are not fully known because they are ongoing
    5. the costs of rising oceans is not fully known, because it is just beginning

The benefit of doing something is a better world ... it should be a no-brainer.

AND now some reality checking:

There’s no “warming pause” — trade winds are burying heat in the Pacific

quote:
Global average land temperatures have not increased as quickly as many scientists had expected over the past 10 or 15 years, leading some climate skeptics to latch onto the bogus idea of a “global warming pause.” Last year researchers reported that much of the “missing heat” was not in fact missing but rather was being sucked up by the oceans.

Now new research helps explain why excess heat is being absorbed into the sea: big-ass winds.

“Global warming hasn’t stalled at all,” Matthew England, a professor at the University of New South Wales in Australia and lead author of the paper, told Grist. “There’s just more heat going into the oceans at the moment.”

Since the turn of the century, the IPO has been in a negative phase, which is marked by strong trade winds in the Pacific. Researchers used models to simulate the effects of these winds on ocean currents and discovered that the strong winds increase the amount of warm water that sinks below the surface, while increasing the amount of cold water that burbles up from ocean depths near the equator.

And that has helped bury extra heat at sea — for now.


So get ready for a big spike when the IPO cycle reverses ...

Prediction: we will see more and larger effects in the near future than we have seen to date.

Edited by RAZD, : .

Edited by RAZD, : ..


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 336 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 61 of 65 (724177)
04-14-2014 9:12 AM


People choosing to be uninformed make stupid decisions
http://www.upworthy.com/...that-will-haunt-you-make-the-time

If you haven't watched this you should.

quote:
A Controversial Episode With Harrison Ford And Don Cheadle That Will Haunt You. Make. The. Time.

Yes, it's nearly an hour long. But whatever you have to clear from your schedule today to make time for this, I highly recommend you don't miss it. Why? It's getting brutally attacked by people who don't want you to see it.


Besides you get to watch Harrison Ford ...

and you may never buy a palm oil product again.

But you also see people being ignorant (and choosing to be ignorant) about what is going on because of religious beliefs ...

... instead of advocating to reduce global warming.


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


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Replies to this message:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 336 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 63 of 65 (738357)
10-09-2014 11:02 AM
Reply to: Message 62 by Percy
10-09-2014 8:57 AM


Re: Unexpected news on southern sea ice and ocean temps
Is global warming WORSE than we think? Ocean temperatures are rising 'up to 152% faster' than believed, study claims

quote:
Global warming is worse than we thought, according to a study that claims temperature readings in the southern hemisphere have been inaccurate.

The US research suggests that we have been sucking up more than twice as much of the heat created by greenhouse gases than previously believed.

Scientists have now recommended increasing estimates of the rate of ocean warming by between 48 per cent and 152 per cent.

Ocean warming is a key marker for global warming as they can store more than 90 per cent of man-made excess heat. Warmer oceans are also connected to rising sea levels.

Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory scientists used satellite observations to uncover long-term ocean warming in the upper 2,300ft (700 metres) of Southern Hemisphere oceans, and found old data was inaccurate.


This offsets\refutes the deniers claim of a hiatus in atmospheric temperatures. The ocean takes in and stores much more heat than the atmosphere.

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 336 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 64 of 65 (738416)
10-10-2014 10:27 AM
Reply to: Message 62 by Percy
10-09-2014 8:57 AM


Why did southern sea ice increase?
Here is a very good explanation for the increase in sea ice in the Antarctic:

Antarctic Sea Ice and Global Warming

quote:

there seem to be three things that can cause more of this ice. One might be the addition of fresh water to the system. That seems likely if the Antarctic glaciers are melting (which they are). Depending on where the fresh water goes, that could allow the formation of sea ice. Also, if precipitation increased in the area, that would add fresh water.

Second, the area where the sea ice is forming could be colder. That seems backwards in on a warming planet, but actually, that can happen too. Antarctica is, to a larger extent than the Arctic, a semi-closed system of air and sea currents, because it is a roundish continent surrounded by sea at one end of the planet. This means that cold air might be retained over the continent rather coherently. At the North Pole, “Winter (January) temperatures … can range from about −43 °C (−45 °F) to −26 °C (−15 °F), perhaps averaging around −34 °C (−29 °F),” while at the South Pole, “In winter, the average temperature remains steady at around −58 °C (−72 °F).” (source: Google). The north pole is sea, the south pole is land, and the south pole is at a higher elevation, but those differences are partly why the south pole is colder. Anyway, with all this cold air on the Southern Continent, perhaps one only needs to have air currents change a little to move that cold air over the sea a bit more to add to the chances of freezing water and making sea ice.

Third is the possibility that the disruptive effects of storms, waves, or surface currents could change, making for a calmer environment, allowing more ice formation.

Have any of these things happened?

Yes. Yes, they have.

Added cold seems to be a factor. Added fresh water seems to be a factor. Changes in where cold air and relatively fresh water goes seems to be a factor. I don’t know about storminess and currents at the outer edge of ice formation.

The dramatic and steady increase in Antarctic Sea Ice is yet another example of the effects of climate change.


(see article for data links)

Glacier ice melts during the summer, the fresh water from this stays near the surface where it is easier to freeze. Changing climate patterns cause colder air at the south pole in the winter, extending over the surrounding ocean, which causes more freezing.

Enjoy.


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


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