Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
3 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,817 Year: 3,074/9,624 Month: 919/1,588 Week: 102/223 Day: 0/13 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Is the Bible the inerrant word of God? Or is it the words of men?
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 136 of 2241 (738369)
10-09-2014 12:50 PM
Reply to: Message 134 by Faith
10-09-2014 12:33 PM


Re: 3 in one
The links in your links are dead. Try again.
ABE
Oh yeah still not evidence. Apologetics is not evidence.
Edited by Theodoric, : No reason given.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by Faith, posted 10-09-2014 12:33 PM Faith has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 137 of 2241 (738372)
10-09-2014 1:48 PM
Reply to: Message 134 by Faith
10-09-2014 12:33 PM


Re: 3 in one
In the messages you linked to, the links to Blue Letter Bible say, "Oops. Page Not Found." You're attempting to shift the task from yourself by pointing elsewhere and claiming, "The proof lies there," but it would be preferable if you made the effort yourself, and anyway, as Theodoric notes, religious apologetics are not evidence nor even logical.
If you have actual evidence and rational arguments then you should just present them in a message, but it's akin to the ancient argument of how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.
--Perecy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by Faith, posted 10-09-2014 12:33 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 138 by Faith, posted 10-09-2014 4:02 PM Percy has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 138 of 2241 (738379)
10-09-2014 4:02 PM
Reply to: Message 137 by Percy
10-09-2014 1:48 PM


Re: 3 in one
How this can be dismissed as Apologetics is beyond me.
To prove the Trinity takes a long list of Biblical verses. I did at least sketch out in that one post I linked to what the categories of those verses are. Individual verses show that God is One, that the Father has the attributes of God, that the Son has the attributes of God, and that the Holy Spirit has the attributes of God, and they show the three acting independently of one another as separate "Persons." When the subject first came up it was understood that I couldn't spell all that out without taking up too much space and that simply indicating what the link explained was sufficient in this case. However, I'll try to get back later and find at least one verse per category to make the point.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 137 by Percy, posted 10-09-2014 1:48 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 139 by NoNukes, posted 10-09-2014 4:42 PM Faith has replied
 Message 141 by Theodoric, posted 10-09-2014 6:39 PM Faith has replied
 Message 143 by Percy, posted 10-09-2014 8:19 PM Faith has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 139 of 2241 (738383)
10-09-2014 4:42 PM
Reply to: Message 138 by Faith
10-09-2014 4:02 PM


Re: 3 in one
I recall a debate with Alter2Ego in which A2E took the position that the Bible did not support the Trinity. Perhaps you could just point to your best arguments from that thread? Surely a pointer or two will turn up some really good arguments.
I believe the thread is Bible Teachings or Traditions of Men?. Your first post on the subject of the Trinity is Message 20.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by Faith, posted 10-09-2014 4:02 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 140 by Faith, posted 10-09-2014 4:58 PM NoNukes has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 140 of 2241 (738384)
10-09-2014 4:58 PM
Reply to: Message 139 by NoNukes
10-09-2014 4:42 PM


Re: 3 in one
That's what I just did that they are complaining about. For one thing the links are broken. Ill have to track down the relevant verses later.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 139 by NoNukes, posted 10-09-2014 4:42 PM NoNukes has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 141 of 2241 (738392)
10-09-2014 6:39 PM
Reply to: Message 138 by Faith
10-09-2014 4:02 PM


Re: 3 in one
How this can be dismissed as Apologetics is beyond me.
Do you even know what the term, apologetics means?

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by Faith, posted 10-09-2014 4:02 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 142 by Faith, posted 10-09-2014 8:07 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 142 of 2241 (738396)
10-09-2014 8:07 PM
Reply to: Message 141 by Theodoric
10-09-2014 6:39 PM


Re: 3 in one
What I linked was evidence for the Trinity. Evidence.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by Theodoric, posted 10-09-2014 6:39 PM Theodoric has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 145 by NoNukes, posted 10-09-2014 8:39 PM Faith has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 143 of 2241 (738398)
10-09-2014 8:19 PM
Reply to: Message 138 by Faith
10-09-2014 4:02 PM


Re: 3 in one
Hi Faith,
Whether the Bible is the inerrant Word of God is the thread's topic, and I think you'd need to prove that first. You're not going to prove the trinity quoting verses made up by men.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by Faith, posted 10-09-2014 4:02 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 144 by Faith, posted 10-09-2014 8:23 PM Percy has replied
 Message 146 by NoNukes, posted 10-09-2014 8:48 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 144 of 2241 (738399)
10-09-2014 8:23 PM
Reply to: Message 143 by Percy
10-09-2014 8:19 PM


Re: 3 in one
Funny, that's how the Trinity was first formulated, from the verses in the Bible that add up to such a concept.
But that's fine, I don't want to waste my time trying to show you something you'll just ignore anyway.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 143 by Percy, posted 10-09-2014 8:19 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 151 by Percy, posted 10-10-2014 8:54 AM Faith has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 145 of 2241 (738401)
10-09-2014 8:39 PM
Reply to: Message 142 by Faith
10-09-2014 8:07 PM


Re: 3 in one
What I linked was evidence for the Trinity. Evidence.
I'd consider it to be primarily argument. But there is nothing wrong with that.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 142 by Faith, posted 10-09-2014 8:07 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 147 by Faith, posted 10-09-2014 9:26 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 146 of 2241 (738402)
10-09-2014 8:48 PM
Reply to: Message 143 by Percy
10-09-2014 8:19 PM


Re: 3 in one
Whether the Bible is the inerrant Word of God is the thread's topic, and I think you'd need to prove that first. You're not going to prove the trinity quoting verses made up by men.
Perhaps not.
But I'd be satisfied with just a strong argument that Trinity doctrine is even described in the Bible. If Trinitarians are correct, they ought to be able to do that.
Most people who have been in such arguments are aware the every single one of the pro arguments has very sound rebuttals. And of course, this is a debate site and not Fundamentalist Bible School night.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 143 by Percy, posted 10-09-2014 8:19 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 147 of 2241 (738405)
10-09-2014 9:26 PM
Reply to: Message 145 by NoNukes
10-09-2014 8:39 PM


Re: 3 in one
The evidence is in the list of verses, but there was some sort of preamble to the list explaining that the Trinity isn't stated in so many words but inferred from all those separate verses that present the nature of God as One in Three independent Persons, then the verses show that to be the case.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 145 by NoNukes, posted 10-09-2014 8:39 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 148 by NoNukes, posted 10-09-2014 10:20 PM Faith has replied
 Message 166 by dwise1, posted 10-10-2014 6:36 PM Faith has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 148 of 2241 (738406)
10-09-2014 10:20 PM
Reply to: Message 147 by Faith
10-09-2014 9:26 PM


Re: 3 in one
...but there was some sort of preamble to the list explaining...
I'm familiar with the arguments. I don't find the arguments all that persuasive. I'm aware that you do.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 147 by Faith, posted 10-09-2014 9:26 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 149 by Faith, posted 10-10-2014 1:51 AM NoNukes has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 149 of 2241 (738410)
10-10-2014 1:51 AM
Reply to: Message 148 by NoNukes
10-09-2014 10:20 PM


Re: 3 in one
Is THIS what you are referring to? I don't see an argument there so much as a compilation of the scripture verses from which the Trinity was originally derived.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 148 by NoNukes, posted 10-09-2014 10:20 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 150 by NoNukes, posted 10-10-2014 8:05 AM Faith has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 150 of 2241 (738412)
10-10-2014 8:05 AM
Reply to: Message 149 by Faith
10-10-2014 1:51 AM


Re: 3 in one
Is THIS what you are referring to? I don't see an argument there so much as a compilation of the scripture verses from which the Trinity was originally derived.
I didn't follow the link. Since you've indicated that you don't wish to discuss it, I'm not going to bother with it at this time. I expect that a discussion of the topic would proceed pretty much like the mind/brain one did.
As you've already indicated, the verses don't mention the Trinity at all, so what I am calling argument would be the explanations (which I would not dignify by using the word Apologetics) showing how the verses manage to support the doctrine without actually mentioning it.
And of course, other people have also managed to point out how, in their opinion, the verses do not support the Trinity and how other verses in the Bible contradict the doctrine.
That's why I call the presentation argument. Like much fundamentalist only doctrine, Trinitarianism appears to be doctrine projected onto the Bible rather than extracted from it. And despite the tenuous nature of the Trinity doctrine, people still manage to call people who either disbelieve it, or who believe a non-standard version of the doctrine heretics and non-Christians.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 149 by Faith, posted 10-10-2014 1:51 AM Faith has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024