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Author Topic:   Is the Bible the inerrant word of God? Or is it the words of men?
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 224 of 2241 (738536)
10-11-2014 3:21 PM
Reply to: Message 223 by Faith
10-11-2014 2:52 PM


Re: Truth?
That would be very odd of the King James Bible, which was created four hundred years ago in the time of King James whose life was constantly threatened by the Jesuits because he was a Protestant, just as Queen Elizabeth I's life had been threatened before him. Dozens of times. They both had to have nearly a battalion of soldiers with them at all times for protection against the Antichrist Pope.
Not at all Faith. That's just more of your unsupported assertions.
James was very much aware of the facts that the country had suffered under religious intolerance when both Mary and Elizabeth I had ruled and that the real political threat to the Nation (just as it is in the US today) was religious Fundamentalist; whether RCC or one of the many Protestant factions. James position was rightly to look at proximate causes and one obvious one were the number of different Bibles in circulation, some shouting about an anti-Christ while others condemned Protestants as heretics.
The Authorized King James versions tried to address that, removing all references to the Pope as anti-Christ, preserving the liturgy, trying to sideline both the RCC and Protestant fanatics and establishing a basis for his real effort, building a basis for the Divine Right of Kings.
ABE: The Trinity predated the Bible? What absolute ahistorical nonsense. All the books of the Bible were available to all the churches by the time of the Council of Nicea, all of them many times copied and distributed among the hundreds of churches represented at the Council.
Yes Faith, hundreds of different scriptures existed but the idea of creating one book, of creating a Canon, did not and in fact even today there is no universally accepted canon. Yes the different Churches had their selective lists of scripture but as I said, even today there is no single canon.
*ABE2: The Gunpowder Plot, whose failure was celebrated for four hundred years in England as Guy Fawkes Day, was a plot by the Jesuits to blow up the King and Parliament and destroy the Government of England.
But there is no evidence that was a Jesuit plot and Guy Fawkes was definitely not a Jesuit, but it was the kind of violence King James wanted to discourage.
Edited by jar, : added material from Faith
Edited by jar, : fix last entry

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 223 by Faith, posted 10-11-2014 2:52 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 225 by Faith, posted 10-11-2014 3:56 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 226 of 2241 (738539)
10-11-2014 4:09 PM
Reply to: Message 225 by Faith
10-11-2014 3:56 PM


Re: Truth?
A Bible does not exist until after a Canon list the books to be included.
There is still no universally accepted Canon.
Sorry Faith but that is reality and the TRUTH.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 225 by Faith, posted 10-11-2014 3:56 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 230 by NoNukes, posted 10-11-2014 8:12 PM jar has replied
 Message 235 by Faith, posted 10-11-2014 9:42 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 231 of 2241 (738546)
10-11-2014 8:24 PM
Reply to: Message 230 by NoNukes
10-11-2014 8:12 PM


Re: Truth?
'The Bible' cannot exist without a Canon. That much is true. But that lack of agreement did not stop anyone from developing scriptural doctrine from the available scriptures. And we know for a fact that people did exactly that well prior to canonization.
Exactly. And they developed different Canons. And they developed doctrine and imposed doctrine. And they still do. And there is still no universal doctrine within Club Christian.
Truth is totally irrelevant and money, politics, control and power foremost.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 230 by NoNukes, posted 10-11-2014 8:12 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 232 by NoNukes, posted 10-11-2014 9:21 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 234 of 2241 (738550)
10-11-2014 9:32 PM
Reply to: Message 232 by NoNukes
10-11-2014 9:21 PM


Re: Truth?
But there is also the Samaritan Canon which has none of the new Testament and the different Ethopian Orthodox Canons.
The point is that the Bible is either not the inerrant word of God or that God was senile and unable to decide what books were in or out. And the concept of the Trinity is and was simply a matter of folk taking verses out of scripture to try to support their position just as those who oppose the concept do.
The difference is that those who oppose the concept of the Trinity have the advantage of reason, logic, understandability on their side.
As I mentioned above I happen to be one of those Christians that subscribe to the concept of the Trinity. I just don't try to cherry pick, take out of context and misrepresent what is found in scripture or claim that the concept is Biblical, reasonable, rational, logical or understandable.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 232 by NoNukes, posted 10-11-2014 9:21 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 241 by NoNukes, posted 10-11-2014 10:37 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 239 of 2241 (738556)
10-11-2014 10:06 PM
Reply to: Message 235 by Faith
10-11-2014 9:42 PM


Re: Truth?
Not accepted by heretics and others but there is a canon accepted by Protestants.
Thanks. Once again you support my assertions.
What your Chapter of Club Christian markets is is right while what other Chapters of Club Christian markets makes them heretics according to you.
We know you think that.
But that is irrelevant to the topic.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 235 by Faith, posted 10-11-2014 9:42 PM Faith has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 247 of 2241 (738566)
10-12-2014 9:05 AM
Reply to: Message 241 by NoNukes
10-11-2014 10:37 PM


Re: Truth?
Which is what I have been saying. It is not based on the Bible (a specific collection of scriptures).

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 241 by NoNukes, posted 10-11-2014 10:37 PM NoNukes has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 248 by Faith, posted 10-12-2014 2:39 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 250 of 2241 (738585)
10-12-2014 4:09 PM
Reply to: Message 248 by Faith
10-12-2014 2:39 PM


Re: Truth?
Actually no Faith. That is simply bullshit. If that were the case there would be some uniformity between the different Canons.
Before any Canons there was simply a jumble of different, individual scriptural scrolls.
Yes, the concept of the Trinity existed before the Bible as I pointed put and yes, the concept of the Trinity was supported by cherry picking verses from different scriptural scrolls just as those opposing the Trinitarian concept supported their position by cherry picking verses from different scriptural scrolls.
That has absolutely nothing to do with whether the concept of the Trinity is reasonable or logical. It's not.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 248 by Faith, posted 10-12-2014 2:39 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 253 by arachnophilia, posted 10-12-2014 6:47 PM jar has not replied
 Message 255 by Faith, posted 10-12-2014 7:14 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 258 of 2241 (738595)
10-12-2014 8:50 PM
Reply to: Message 255 by Faith
10-12-2014 7:14 PM


Re: Truth?
So you say. Yet none of the New Testament made it into the Samaritan Canon that includes only those books that might have been canonized at the time of Jesus.
And there were a whole bunch of Gospels floating around, not just the four. The Epistles were written to specific parties and there is no evidence I know of that they were widely circulated.
The Gospels came very late, the earliest at least 60 years after Jesus death.
Faith writes:
You keep insisting on this absolute nonsense. The Trinity could not possibly have existed before the scripture verses from which it is derived.
Learn to read Faith. I have never said that the Concept of the Trinity was developed before the scriptures.
God is one and the three are separate is fine. God is one and three is contradictory.
Bring on your list of verses and just as with all the claimed prophecy we will take a look at it in context line by line.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 255 by Faith, posted 10-12-2014 7:14 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 260 by Faith, posted 10-12-2014 9:36 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 261 of 2241 (738598)
10-12-2014 9:38 PM
Reply to: Message 260 by Faith
10-12-2014 9:36 PM


Re: Truth?
That is not a list of verses it is commentary.
Try again.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 260 by Faith, posted 10-12-2014 9:36 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 262 by Faith, posted 10-12-2014 9:40 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 275 of 2241 (738618)
10-13-2014 9:10 AM
Reply to: Message 262 by Faith
10-12-2014 9:40 PM


Re: Truth?
And again, if you look at your source it is pieces parts, all taken out of context. There is not a single one that points to the concept of the Trinity. That is an extra-Biblical human concept and those verses taken out of context used to support the human, not Biblical, concept.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 262 by Faith, posted 10-12-2014 9:40 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 278 by Faith, posted 10-13-2014 12:25 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 280 of 2241 (738641)
10-13-2014 1:08 PM
Reply to: Message 278 by Faith
10-13-2014 12:25 PM


Re: Truth?
Bullshit and NewSpeak.
The context are the words surrounding them in the text.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 278 by Faith, posted 10-13-2014 12:25 PM Faith has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 281 of 2241 (738642)
10-13-2014 1:09 PM
Reply to: Message 279 by Faith
10-13-2014 12:37 PM


Re: 3 in one
Did you forget to mention Paul and Peter, two pretty well known cult leaders?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 279 by Faith, posted 10-13-2014 12:37 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 282 by Faith, posted 10-13-2014 1:22 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 283 of 2241 (738646)
10-13-2014 1:52 PM
Reply to: Message 282 by Faith
10-13-2014 1:22 PM


Re: 3 in one
And Jesus.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 282 by Faith, posted 10-13-2014 1:22 PM Faith has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 321 of 2241 (738710)
10-14-2014 2:32 PM
Reply to: Message 308 by Faith
10-14-2014 1:24 PM


Re: Review of the False Church of Rome
Stop and think.
Whose doctrine?
The doctrine you wish to market?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 308 by Faith, posted 10-14-2014 1:24 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 329 by Phat, posted 10-14-2014 5:13 PM jar has not replied
 Message 331 by Faith, posted 10-14-2014 6:09 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 335 of 2241 (738731)
10-14-2014 8:12 PM
Reply to: Message 330 by Faith
10-14-2014 6:01 PM


The Christian answer to your question is that God elects those He chooses to save, from every culture in the world. I consider myself one of those extremely fortunate people.
If that is true then that god is evil and not just unworthy of worship but deserving of condemnation.
To think that is the Christian answer is to condemn Christianity as well.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 330 by Faith, posted 10-14-2014 6:01 PM Faith has not replied

  
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