Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
4 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,817 Year: 3,074/9,624 Month: 919/1,588 Week: 102/223 Day: 0/13 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Is the Bible the inerrant word of God? Or is it the words of men?
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 361 of 2241 (738783)
10-15-2014 5:15 PM
Reply to: Message 360 by jar
10-15-2014 5:05 PM


Re: Try truth Faith? jar?
Nowhere in the Bible does it say that priests can't molest children or murder millions who disagree with Romanism either.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 360 by jar, posted 10-15-2014 5:05 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 362 by jar, posted 10-15-2014 5:22 PM Faith has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 362 of 2241 (738784)
10-15-2014 5:22 PM
Reply to: Message 361 by Faith
10-15-2014 5:15 PM


Re: Try truth Faith? jar?
Nowhere in the Bible does it say that priests can't molest children or murder millions who disagree with Romanism either.
Well kinda.
The Bible says you should not commit murder whether is is Protestants killing Catholics or Catholics killing Protestants or either or both killing Muslims.
And molestation is not a Biblical issue, it is a societal issue where religion is irrelevant.
You just keep trying to palm the pea through misdirection don't you faith.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 361 by Faith, posted 10-15-2014 5:15 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 364 by Faith, posted 10-15-2014 11:56 PM jar has not replied
 Message 368 by dwise1, posted 10-16-2014 9:00 AM jar has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 363 of 2241 (738785)
10-15-2014 6:59 PM
Reply to: Message 347 by Faith
10-15-2014 4:45 AM


Re: Are you sure you're mainstream?
If you think that last post of yours is a reasonable answer to what I've been saying, you've outdone yourself on this thread far beyond any of the others.
Isn't this what you say every thread?
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 347 by Faith, posted 10-15-2014 4:45 AM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 364 of 2241 (738787)
10-15-2014 11:56 PM
Reply to: Message 362 by jar
10-15-2014 5:22 PM


Re: Try truth Faith? jar?
deleted. Decided there's no point in pursuing this topic.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 362 by jar, posted 10-15-2014 5:22 PM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 365 by Percy, posted 10-16-2014 1:01 AM Faith has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 365 of 2241 (738794)
10-16-2014 1:01 AM
Reply to: Message 364 by Faith
10-15-2014 11:56 PM


Re: Try truth Faith? jar?
Faith in Messages 361 and 364 writes:
Nowhere in the Bible does it say that priests can't molest children or murder millions who disagree with Romanism either.
...
It also doesn't say it's wrong to deceive people into thinking they can be saved by paying money; it also doesn't say it's wrong to lie about Mary.
But if it's not in the Bible then it's pretty much just you deciding what qualifies as Christian and what doesn't, not God. Which is fine as long as you understand that that's what you're doing and stop putting words in God's mouth. You don't speak for God.
Of course the Bible does say many things, and you can claim it's God word describing the Christian way, but there's no evidence God wrote the Bible.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 364 by Faith, posted 10-15-2014 11:56 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 366 by Faith, posted 10-16-2014 1:34 AM Percy has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 366 of 2241 (738799)
10-16-2014 1:34 AM
Reply to: Message 365 by Percy
10-16-2014 1:01 AM


Re: Try truth Faith? jar?
Anyone who knows and believes the Bible and represents it correctly speaks for God, sorry.
But you are right, it is a matter of opinions after all, the opinion of those who believe God and His word versus the opinion of those who reject it and support the RCC's paganism (indulgences, relics, prayer to "saints," repetitive prayers, prayers for the dead etc.) and all the rest of the offenses against both Christ and humanity by the red-and-purple-robed bejeweled anti-Christian hierarchy with its unChristian ambition to rule the world that anyone with the barest knowledge of the gospels of Christ ought to see in an instant bears no resemblance to same. But of course we can ignore the gospels, TRUE Christianity must be what the Pope says it is, huh?
True, it's a matter of opinion. I know yours, you know mine, can we stop now?
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 365 by Percy, posted 10-16-2014 1:01 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 367 by Percy, posted 10-16-2014 7:46 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 372 by ringo, posted 10-16-2014 12:00 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 376 by Taq, posted 10-16-2014 7:58 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 382 by GDR, posted 10-17-2014 10:56 AM Faith has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 367 of 2241 (738814)
10-16-2014 7:46 AM
Reply to: Message 366 by Faith
10-16-2014 1:34 AM


Re: Try truth Faith? jar?
Faith writes:
Anyone who knows and believes the Bible and represents it correctly speaks for God, sorry.
This is your religious belief, with you personally (not God) deciding what it means to correctly represent the Bible.
But you are right, it is a matter of opinions after all, the opinion of those who believe God and His word versus the opinion of those who reject it and support the RCC's paganism...
From the outside it's just two sides arguing over an ancient book of myths and legends, each with their own distinct interpretation.
TRUE Christianity must be what the Pope says it is, huh?
There is no "TRUE" Christianity, nor any "TRUE" religion. Religion is a social and cultural construct of men that has always varied and changed across geography and eras.
True, it's a matter of opinion. I know yours, you know mine, can we stop now?
Do what you like. For myself, I'm still interested in the thread's topic.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 366 by Faith, posted 10-16-2014 1:34 AM Faith has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 368 of 2241 (738818)
10-16-2014 9:00 AM
Reply to: Message 362 by jar
10-15-2014 5:22 PM


Re: Try truth Faith? jar?
And molestation is not a Biblical issue, it is a societal issue where religion is irrelevant.
That raises a question: What does the Bible say about molestation? Does it speak for it? Or against it? Or take both sides? Or not even mention it at all?
If the Bible is supposed to convey all of "God's absolute morality", then shouldn't it have something very definite to say about a very serious moral problem? A problem that almost everybody of all faiths, including atheists, agree is wrong.
And what about something else that almost everybody (albeit more by atheists and less by religious fanatics) agrees is wrong: genocide. Now, we do know that the Bible does address genocide, but the only biblical references to genocide that I know of are God's commands to commit genocide. Does the Bible say anything against genocide?
Curious minds want to know.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 362 by jar, posted 10-15-2014 5:22 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 369 by jar, posted 10-16-2014 9:15 AM dwise1 has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 369 of 2241 (738820)
10-16-2014 9:15 AM
Reply to: Message 368 by dwise1
10-16-2014 9:00 AM


Re: Try truth Faith? jar?
The Bible reflects the opinions of a peoples at a given point of time and within a specific culture so there is no one answer.
There is the well known "Let he who is without sin caste the first stone" passage. Now the writer could have had the Jesus character say "Hey, stoning is wrong so don't do it." That would be clear and simple. But the author didn't. He says "look at yourself first and place yourself in the other persons position."
The Bible is filled with God struggling with the issue of morality, questioning, unsure what is the right and moral path and the folk that try to pedal absolute Biblical morality or even God's absolute morality do a great disservice.
Morality is difficult and every single instance must be determined using the knowledge available and the persons best judgement and empathy.
Edited by jar, : ever ---> every

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 368 by dwise1, posted 10-16-2014 9:00 AM dwise1 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 370 by dwise1, posted 10-16-2014 10:10 AM jar has replied
 Message 374 by Phat, posted 10-16-2014 4:40 PM jar has replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 370 of 2241 (738823)
10-16-2014 10:10 AM
Reply to: Message 369 by jar
10-16-2014 9:15 AM


Re: Try truth Faith? jar?
I agree with what you are saying.
But if we were to take the perspective of someone trying to argue for absolute "God's morality", what guidance would we be able to find in the Bible on such issues as child molestation and genocide?
Kind of going for proof by contradiction, I guess. Or just enjoying the irony that arises from taking them at their word, kind of like what I've often done with creationists' claims.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 369 by jar, posted 10-16-2014 9:15 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 371 by jar, posted 10-16-2014 10:28 AM dwise1 has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 371 of 2241 (738826)
10-16-2014 10:28 AM
Reply to: Message 370 by dwise1
10-16-2014 10:10 AM


Morality is absolutely slippery
I don't think there was a concept of "child molestation" back then. Children were property just like women and used to gain power, prestige, wealth, advantage.
Genocide is another similar issue. There just was no such concept. Even within groupings like the 12 Tribes you find examples of "us" and "them".
When we talk about modern concepts like those we are simply trying to shoehorn our evolved morality onto an earlier period. Jess don't work.
Edited by jar, : fix sub-title

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 370 by dwise1, posted 10-16-2014 10:10 AM dwise1 has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(2)
Message 372 of 2241 (738834)
10-16-2014 12:00 PM
Reply to: Message 366 by Faith
10-16-2014 1:34 AM


Re: Try truth Faith? jar?
Faith writes:
Anyone who knows and believes the Bible and represents it correctly speaks for God, sorry.
You don't know the Bible.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 366 by Faith, posted 10-16-2014 1:34 AM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 373 by Phat, posted 10-16-2014 4:35 PM ringo has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 373 of 2241 (738854)
10-16-2014 4:35 PM
Reply to: Message 372 by ringo
10-16-2014 12:00 PM


Back To The Topic
Is the Bible the inerrant word of God? Or is it the words of men?
Logic tells us that the Bible, more correctly the books of the majority canons..ie the 66 books included in the King James, NIV, and NEV which are the majority of western Christianity--were obviously and in fact written by humans. The larger question is whether or not these humans were motivated and/or inspired by ulterior motives or whether these humans were individually and collectively inspired by the Holy Spirit.
Faith is defending her belief that the Bible was inspired by God and written by and through God.
IThe obvious questions then are raised--in debate forums such as this one where we have believers, non-believers, and both witty and acerbic skeptics--as to which god we are talking about and whether in fact such a foundation can even be laid logically, reasonably, and rationally.
Personally, I believe that the books of the Bible were inspired, but I can also see the contrarian point of view. As to which denomination is right I can only dare judge them on an individual, rather than collective basis.
In conclusion, I will say that I have met individuals who are quite rational, and also fervent believers in God as many Christians understand God to be. Additionally, while it is true that much has been said about the errors of Roman Catholicism--to me the emphasis should be on the individual rather than the institution to which they belong. This holds true for each one of us involved in this debate. It also gets us back to the question. Were the individuals who collectively were responsible for deciding which words and books were to be allowed in the popular Bible motivated through prayer and a life where not just the mind and emotions but the daily will surrendered to God? Or...were they motivated by other spirits or vibes or intentions?

...."When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean neither more nor less."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 372 by ringo, posted 10-16-2014 12:00 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 383 by ringo, posted 10-17-2014 11:56 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 374 of 2241 (738855)
10-16-2014 4:40 PM
Reply to: Message 369 by jar
10-16-2014 9:15 AM


Re: Try truth Faith? jar?
jar writes:
The Bible reflects the opinions of a peoples at a given point of time and within a specific culture so there is no one answer.
There is the well known "Let he who is without sin caste the first stone" passage. Now the writer could have had the Jesus character say "Hey, stoning is wrong so don't do it." That would be clear and simple. But the author didn't. He says "look at yourself first and place yourself in the other persons position."
I would be more interested and impressed if the writer was a believer in God and accepted the "Jesus character" as more than simply a character. Of course this would only happen if the writer believed not only in the God he or she wrote about but the GOD --Creator of all seen and unseen--Who many would say reached out to humanity through Jesus Christ who was initially Gods character long before any writers got ahold of the script.

...."When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean neither more nor less."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 369 by jar, posted 10-16-2014 9:15 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 375 by jar, posted 10-16-2014 5:12 PM Phat has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 375 of 2241 (738857)
10-16-2014 5:12 PM
Reply to: Message 374 by Phat
10-16-2014 4:40 PM


Re: Try truth Faith? jar?
I would be more interested and impressed if the writer was a believer in God and accepted the "Jesus character" as more than simply a character.
Why? How would you tell?
Of course this would only happen if the writer believed not only in the God he or she wrote about but the GOD --Creator of all seen and unseen--Who many would say reached out to humanity through Jesus Christ who was initially Gods character long before any writers got ahold of the script.
What does that mean?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 374 by Phat, posted 10-16-2014 4:40 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 379 by Phat, posted 10-17-2014 2:37 AM jar has replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024