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Author Topic:   Is the Bible the inerrant word of God? Or is it the words of men?
Taq
Member
Posts: 9972
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.5


(1)
Message 376 of 2241 (738868)
10-16-2014 7:58 PM
Reply to: Message 366 by Faith
10-16-2014 1:34 AM


Re: Try truth Faith? jar?
But of course we can ignore the gospels, TRUE Christianity must be what the Pope says it is, huh?
The irony of this statement is quite delicious.
Is TRUE christianity what Faith says it is? You are displaying the same hubris that you detest in others.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 366 by Faith, posted 10-16-2014 1:34 AM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 377 of 2241 (738871)
10-16-2014 9:23 PM


Hypothetical Rational EvC-er says
I really get your point, Faith, and I have to say it makes sense. What other basis for Christian doctrine and belief could there be but the Bible, since there is no other source of information about Jesus Christ and his teachings?
And your point is well taken that the practices of the RCC pretty obviously contradict the letter and the spirit of the scriptures. I for one thank you for informing us of these things.
In my dreams, I know.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
 Message 378 by PaulK, posted 10-17-2014 2:15 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 384 by NoNukes, posted 10-17-2014 11:57 AM Faith has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 378 of 2241 (738877)
10-17-2014 2:15 AM
Reply to: Message 377 by Faith
10-16-2014 9:23 PM


Re: Hypothetical Rational EvC-er says
I've tried to keep out of this discussion, but seriously, Faith, Why would a rational person lie just to pretend that you are right ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 377 by Faith, posted 10-16-2014 9:23 PM Faith has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 379 of 2241 (738878)
10-17-2014 2:37 AM
Reply to: Message 375 by jar
10-16-2014 5:12 PM


Re: Try truth Faith? jar?
Phat writes:
I would be more interested and impressed if the writer was a believer in God and accepted the "Jesus character" as more than simply a character.
jar writes:
Why?
Because this is my belief and it is very important to me for it to be real. I can read fiction and fantasy from any writer, but when it comes to my faith/belief, I am more likely to trust a writer who has had experience with God and/or Jesus.
jar writes:
How would you tell?
There is no concrete way to prove that an individual has had these experiences, nor is there a way that the experiences can be replicated upon demand. There is a way that you can judge the character and honor of an individual based on what they have experienced, however. Corrie Ten Boom and her experiences in the nazi death camps comes to mind. Listening to survivors of such strong emotional events allows you to separate the fake from the real. Call it intuition. And yes, I will admit it is not 100% foolproof. I admit that I could be wrong in my judgements. I also admit freely that confirmation bias is usually involved. It is my belief, however, that the genuine and honest storyteller will be self evident.
Phat writes:
Of course this would only happen if the writer believed not only in the God he or she wrote about but the GOD --Creator of all seen and unseen--Who many would say reached out to humanity through Jesus Christ who was initially Gods character long before any writers got ahold of the script.
jar writes:
What does that mean?
A genuine experience can be written about better than a made up fantasy.

...."When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean neither more nor less."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 375 by jar, posted 10-16-2014 5:12 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 381 by Theodoric, posted 10-17-2014 8:57 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 380 of 2241 (738885)
10-17-2014 8:22 AM
Reply to: Message 379 by Phat
10-17-2014 2:37 AM


Re: Try truth Faith? jar?
How do you tell that the experience is a reflection of reality and not hallucination?
You have never told how to test that the experience of meeting God or being saved or being born again is real.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 381 of 2241 (738888)
10-17-2014 8:57 AM
Reply to: Message 379 by Phat
10-17-2014 2:37 AM


Re: Try truth Faith? jar?
A genuine experience can be written about better than a made up fantasy.
Bullshit. Fiction can be a lot more engrossing than non-fiction. The skill of the writer is more important than whether the experience was genuine or not.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 379 by Phat, posted 10-17-2014 2:37 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 382 of 2241 (738892)
10-17-2014 10:56 AM
Reply to: Message 366 by Faith
10-16-2014 1:34 AM


Re: Try truth Faith? jar?
Faith writes:
Anyone who knows and believes the Bible and represents it correctly speaks for God, sorry.
But you are right, it is a matter of opinions after all, the opinion of those who believe God and His word versus the opinion of those who reject it ...
The author of the Gospel of John tells us that Jesus is the "Word" of God. Instead of believing the "Word" of God you choose to believe a collection of books written by men inspired to write down their understanding, coloured by their cultural and personal influences, of God trying to make Himself and His nature understood by humans. It is an ongoing story that the writers sometimes get right and sometimes get wrong.
All theists worship some form of God. It is His nature that we struggle to come to grips with. You somehow manage to believe in a god who both commands mass slaughter and the stoning to death of those committing minor offences, with one who commands us to love our neighbour and even our enemy. I choose to believe in God as seen through the lens of Jesus as depicted in the Gospels as opposed to the sometimes loving sometimes hateful god depicted in other books of the Bible.
As I have said before, the religion is Christianity not the Biblianity that you adhere to.

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.
Micah 6:8

This message is a reply to:
 Message 366 by Faith, posted 10-16-2014 1:34 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 385 by Faith, posted 10-17-2014 4:37 PM GDR has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 383 of 2241 (738897)
10-17-2014 11:56 AM
Reply to: Message 373 by Phat
10-16-2014 4:35 PM


Re: Back To The Topic
Phat writes:
Were the individuals who collectively were responsible for deciding which words and books were to be allowed in the popular Bible motivated through prayer and a life where not just the mind and emotions but the daily will surrendered to God? Or...were they motivated by other spirits or vibes or intentions?
I don't see what "surrendering to the will of God" has to do with the topic. God could have dictated the Bible, word for word, in King James English, and the scribes could have written it down faithfully regardless of any ulterior motives or intentions. We have reporters today who faithfully report the news even if they don't believe a word of what the protagonists are saying.
The problem with inerrancy is that the content doesn't match reality. Therefore, either the source didn't know what he was talking about or he was reported inaccurately. The reasons why he may have been reported inaccurately are not really relevant.

This message is a reply to:
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NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 384 of 2241 (738898)
10-17-2014 11:57 AM
Reply to: Message 377 by Faith
10-16-2014 9:23 PM


Re: Hypothetical Rational EvC-er says
What other basis for Christian doctrine and belief could there be but the Bible, since there is no other source of information about Jesus Christ and his teachings?
Posters other than this particular poster might have a few concerns for this particular 'Rational EvC-er'
1) What impressions did people form about Jesus in the decade or more between when Christ lived and the first Gospel was completed?
2) Which of the many possible interpretations of scripture is correct?
3) Why is Faith so concerned about the Pope's hat? And why does she deny that Protestants have ever persecuted other Christians and Catholics? Why does she make excuses for anti-semitism?
I for one thank you for informing us of these things.
We can find hatred of Catholicism anywhere on the internet. But thank you for the peek inside the mind of a hater.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 377 by Faith, posted 10-16-2014 9:23 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 386 by Faith, posted 10-17-2014 4:42 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


(1)
Message 385 of 2241 (738917)
10-17-2014 4:37 PM
Reply to: Message 382 by GDR
10-17-2014 10:56 AM


Re: Try truth Faith? jar?
Everything I quoted (I think, just about anyway, and besides, Jesus authored the entire Bible, it's ALL His Word) was from Jesus Himself, the Word as you point out, whose words you'd never find out except from the written Word. Without it nobody would have a clue about Jesus Christ and His teachings but you dismiss the very source of knowledge about Him. How ludicrous. You wouldn't know He is the Word of God without the written Word. Pretty irrational to dismiss the Bible as if you could know Jesus without it.
Yes, I believe God's "mass slaughters" are demonstrations of His judgments against sin. Most of them followed hundreds of years of His being patient with the people before bringing the judgment. You can learn from these things how God deals with sin or you can ignore it and get caught off guard. He gives us such information for our own good.
God uses the personalities and cultural experience of His inspired writers too.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 382 by GDR, posted 10-17-2014 10:56 AM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 391 by GDR, posted 10-18-2014 10:20 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


(2)
Message 386 of 2241 (738920)
10-17-2014 4:42 PM
Reply to: Message 384 by NoNukes
10-17-2014 11:57 AM


Re: Hypothetical Rational EvC-er says
I'm sure the Pope appreciates your fervent politically correct defense of the RCC's wealth and false doctrine, and especially your hatred of traditional Protestantism. Do let us know if he invites you for a special audience.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 384 by NoNukes, posted 10-17-2014 11:57 AM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 387 by jar, posted 10-17-2014 8:11 PM Faith has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 387 of 2241 (738927)
10-17-2014 8:11 PM
Reply to: Message 386 by Faith
10-17-2014 4:42 PM


Re: Hypothetical Rational EvC-er says
I'm sure the Pope appreciates your fervent politically correct defense of the RCC's wealth and false doctrine, and especially your hatred of traditional Protestantism.
Some Protestant chapters of Club Christian certainly deserve not hatred but pity, revulsion and disgust. Calvinism is one example. It is based on all that is evil and despicable about a theology or God. The basis of Calvinism is the lowest possible expression of humanity, faith, empathy and love.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 386 by Faith, posted 10-17-2014 4:42 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 388 by Faith, posted 10-17-2014 9:08 PM jar has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 388 of 2241 (738928)
10-17-2014 9:08 PM
Reply to: Message 387 by jar
10-17-2014 8:11 PM


Re: Hypothetical Rational EvC-er says
I'm sure God has heard your complaint loud and clear and given it due consideration. You can expect to be apprised of his conclusions at the appropriate time.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 387 by jar, posted 10-17-2014 8:11 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 389 by jar, posted 10-17-2014 9:38 PM Faith has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 389 of 2241 (738929)
10-17-2014 9:38 PM
Reply to: Message 388 by Faith
10-17-2014 9:08 PM


Re: Hypothetical Rational EvC-er says
LOL
I have no doubt any God worthy of worship would condemn Calvinism as well.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 388 by Faith, posted 10-17-2014 9:08 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 390 by NoNukes, posted 10-18-2014 1:57 AM jar has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 390 of 2241 (738930)
10-18-2014 1:57 AM
Reply to: Message 389 by jar
10-17-2014 9:38 PM


Re: Hypothetical Rational EvC-er says
Get a room.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 389 by jar, posted 10-17-2014 9:38 PM jar has not replied

  
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