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Author
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Topic: Homosexuality and Evo, Creo, and ID
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1470 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: 10-06-2001
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Yes it is the lowest kind of propaganda
Calling those who have a legitimate basis for opposing gay marriage on the basis of the Bible or on historical facts, "haters" and "homophobes" and "bigots" which is standard operating procedure at EvC, and on the Left in general, is propaganda of the lowest sort, sticking an opprobrious label on a person to discredit the argument. It's sloganizing, it's namecalling, it's designed to smear the person's reputation and distract from the legitimate grounds for the person's argument. Nobody I know has arrived at our assessment of gay marriage from personal feelings, and to accuse us of that is a lie. I've given good and cogent arguments against gay marriage, just to mention this one issue here, but also on other issues, such as to demonstrate the historical misbehaviors of the Roman Catholic Church. Calling me hater, bigot and so on is typical EvC method. It's a lie, it's slander, it's propaganda, and it's designed to smear me and the argument without dealing with the argument. abe: It's also rabble-rousing, it can provoke violent retaliation against those targeted by such epithets. It hasn't yet led to physical assault but it has led to death threats and destruction of property, in the case of the bakers of Oregon and also the husband of Michele Bachman who is a Christian counselor who helps people deal with unwanted same-sex attractions. The Left's method is thuggery, so far mostly in word. Where's your much-vaunted "tolerance?" /abe Here's what Hitler said in Mein Kampt about how to propagandize:
"Propaganda must always address itself to the broad masses of the people. (...) All propaganda must be presented in a popular form and must fix its intellectual level so as not to be above the heads of the least intellectual of those to whom it is directed. (...) The art of propaganda consists precisely in being able to awaken the imagination of the public through an appeal to their feelings, in finding the appropriate psychological form that will arrest the attention and appeal to the hearts of the national masses. The broad masses of the people are not made up of diplomats or professors of public jurisprudence nor simply of persons who are able to form reasoned judgment in given cases, but a vacillating crowd of human children who are constantly wavering between one idea and another. (...) The great majority of a nation is so feminine in its character and outlook that its thought and conduct are ruled by sentiment rather than by sober reasoning. This sentiment, however, is not complex, but simple and consistent. It is not highly differentiated, but has only the "Propaganda must not investigate the truth objectively and, in so far as it is favourable to the other side, present it according to the theoretical rules of justice; yet it must present only that aspect of the truth which is favourable to its own side. (...) The receptive powers of the masses are very restricted, and their understanding is feeble. On the other hand, they quickly forget. Such being the case, all negative and positive notions of love and hatred, right and wrong, truth and falsehood." effective propaganda must be confined to a few bare essentials and those must be expressed as far as possible in stereotyped formulas. These slogans should be persistently repeated until the very last individual has come to grasp the idea that has been put forward. (...) Every change that is made in the subject of a propagandist message must always emphasize the same conclusion. The leading slogan must of course be illustrated in many ways and from several angles, but in the end one must always return to the assertion of the same formula."
This rather well describes the level of arguments on the Left for most of their political positions today, which do in fact amount to the categories of Political Correctness buttressed by illegitimate definitions of Freedom.
... an appeal to their feelings negative and positive notions of love and hatred, right and wrong, truth and falsehood." a few bare essentials and those must be expressed as far as possible in stereotyped formulas. slogans should be persistently repeated And by the way, Mein Kampf is frequently said to have been ghost-written by a Jesuit, a Father Staempfel I think. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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PaulK
Member Posts: 17825 Joined: 01-10-2003 Member Rating: 2.3
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Message 767 of 1309 (741029)
11-09-2014 8:57 AM
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Reply to: Message 763 by Faith
11-09-2014 8:17 AM
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quote:
The guy was a recent convert to Islam and beheaded the woman because that's what Islam says to do.
Are you sure that you are talking about the same case ? Or have you made your usual mistake of jumping to conclusions you like, instead of investigating.
quote:
Political Correctness is promoted by slanderous accusations, typical propaganda method. Form of ad hominem. Comparison with Goebbels Propaganda Ministry quite legitimate comparison of method.
Thank you for saying that we can compare you with Goebbels. But then if we are believe you it is only our "topsy-turvey" values that say that slander is bad
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 763 by Faith, posted 11-09-2014 8:17 AM | | Faith has not replied |
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PaulK
Member Posts: 17825 Joined: 01-10-2003 Member Rating: 2.3
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Message 768 of 1309 (741031)
11-09-2014 9:06 AM
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Reply to: Message 766 by Faith
11-09-2014 8:50 AM
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Re: Yes it is the lowest kind of propaganda
I think we can sum up your post here by saying that you are upset that Hitler's methods aren't working for the campaign against gay marriage. The fact is that there are no legitimate arguments against it - and appeals to the Bible are obviously NOT legitimate. If you really want to disagree then address the issues instead of whining that people dare to criticise you and your side, when you feel perfectly free to viciously and falsely attack thos echo disagree.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 766 by Faith, posted 11-09-2014 8:50 AM | | Faith has not replied |
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9509 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 4.8
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Message 769 of 1309 (741035)
11-09-2014 9:16 AM
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Reply to: Message 766 by Faith
11-09-2014 8:50 AM
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Re: Yes it is the lowest kind of propaganda
Faith writes: It's sloganizing, it's name calling....... ........it's accurate.
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed. Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 766 by Faith, posted 11-09-2014 8:50 AM | | Faith has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 419 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 770 of 1309 (741036)
11-09-2014 9:16 AM
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Reply to: Message 763 by Faith
11-09-2014 8:17 AM
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John Allen Rubio case Faith
Mr Rubio beheaded his common-law wife's three children because he believed the grandmother was a witch who cast demons into the children. He most certainly was a Christian and was listening to Christian radio at the time of the events.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 763 by Faith, posted 11-09-2014 8:17 AM | | Faith has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 771 by PaulK, posted 11-09-2014 9:28 AM | | jar has replied |
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PaulK
Member Posts: 17825 Joined: 01-10-2003 Member Rating: 2.3
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Message 771 of 1309 (741040)
11-09-2014 9:28 AM
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Reply to: Message 770 by jar
11-09-2014 9:16 AM
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Re: John Allen Rubio case Faith
Sure that it wasn't the recent murder of Jacob Crockett ?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 770 by jar, posted 11-09-2014 9:16 AM | | jar has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 772 by jar, posted 11-09-2014 9:31 AM | | PaulK has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 419 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 772 of 1309 (741041)
11-09-2014 9:31 AM
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Reply to: Message 771 by PaulK
11-09-2014 9:28 AM
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Re: John Allen Rubio case Faith
Yet another great example. No Muslims in evidence in either example.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 771 by PaulK, posted 11-09-2014 9:28 AM | | PaulK has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 773 by Faith, posted 11-09-2014 9:50 AM | | jar has replied |
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Faith
Suspended Member (Idle past 1470 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: 10-06-2001
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Message 773 of 1309 (741043)
11-09-2014 9:50 AM
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Reply to: Message 772 by jar
11-09-2014 9:31 AM
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The Islam Convert case
The only case I knew of was the convert to Islam, which also occurred in Oklahoma, and it's such a big story I would see no reason to investigate further. Dr. A who surely must have heard of it should have made it clear he preferred to target the "Christian" case because it better serves his bias. He could have contrasted it with the Muslim case which he instead characterized as blowing things up. Does kind of demonstrate my point about propaganda that you all insist on these other examples and don't even mention this one:
Death penalty sought in case of beheading by a recent convert to Islam Nevertheless, perhaps he wasn't aware of this case, although that seems highly unlikely especially since it was mentioned in the article I found about the Crockett case and also if you google "beheading in Oklahoma" the one I was thinking of comes up. Also highly unlikely for PaulK and jar. Just as I was saying: We like to bash Christians at EvC, we like to call them haters and bigots to smear them and get others to hate them, instead of treating their cogent legitimate arguments with respect. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 772 by jar, posted 11-09-2014 9:31 AM | | jar has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 774 by PaulK, posted 11-09-2014 10:12 AM | | Faith has not replied | | | Message 775 by Tangle, posted 11-09-2014 10:13 AM | | Faith has not replied | | | Message 776 by jar, posted 11-09-2014 10:15 AM | | Faith has not replied |
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PaulK
Member Posts: 17825 Joined: 01-10-2003 Member Rating: 2.3
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Message 774 of 1309 (741045)
11-09-2014 10:12 AM
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Reply to: Message 773 by Faith
11-09-2014 9:50 AM
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Re: John Allen Rubio case Faith
Dr. adequate is not in the habit of saying things which are not true. You could have asked for clarification, you could have asked him to support his claim. Those would be the sort of response you would get in similar circumstances.
quote:
Just as I was saying: We like to bash Christians at EvC, we like to call them haters and bigots to smear them and get others to hate them, instead of treating their cogent legitimate arguments with respect.
Now that is a lie. Your arguments are frequently irrational and you resort to abuse and denial and misrepresentation when you lose. You get criticised because you earn it. In fact it is fair to say that when it comes to disrespecting cogent arguments you are one of the worst offenders in this board.
quote:
Does kind of demonstrate my point about propaganda that you all insist on these other examples and don't even mention this one:
It does illustrate what is really happening. Nobody denied that the other case occurred - I suggested that it was a different case. But it wasn't relevant. The examples were not chosen out of cogency. To show that it was true that a Christian had beheaded someone we had to show examples of a Christian beheading someone. Anything else is besides the point. You're just making an excuse - an obviously fallacious excuse - to attack people who proved you wrong. Surely a reprehensible action, worthy of criticism.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 773 by Faith, posted 11-09-2014 9:50 AM | | Faith has not replied |
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9509 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 4.8
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Message 775 of 1309 (741046)
11-09-2014 10:13 AM
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Reply to: Message 773 by Faith
11-09-2014 9:50 AM
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Re: The Islam Convert case
Faith writes: Just as I was saying: We like to bash Christians at EvC, we like to call them haters and bigots to smear them and get others to hate them, instead of treating their cogent legitimate arguments with respect. To clarify Faith, we only call those Christians (and Muslims) who are haters and bigots, those few that actually are. Most Christians are not. To be doubly clear, there are no cogent and legitimate arguments for discrimination - just biblical exceptionalism for which there can be no respect whatsoever.
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed. Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 773 by Faith, posted 11-09-2014 9:50 AM | | Faith has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 419 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 776 of 1309 (741047)
11-09-2014 10:15 AM
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Reply to: Message 773 by Faith
11-09-2014 9:50 AM
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More misrepresentation from Faith.
Faith writes: Just as I was saying: We like to bash Christians at EvC, we like to call them haters and bigots to smear them and get others to hate them, instead of treating their cogent legitimate arguments with respect.
It is not Christians that get bashed at EvC Faith but rather only the Christian Cult of Ignorance. Edited by jar, : appalin spallin
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 773 by Faith, posted 11-09-2014 9:50 AM | | Faith has not replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9196 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.3
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Well he obviously wasn't a christian if he beheaded someone. He may have been raised christian and professed to be a christian, but obviously he wasn't a christian. He must have been one of them there moslems.
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 778 by Faith, posted 11-09-2014 11:08 AM | | Theodoric has replied |
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Faith
Suspended Member (Idle past 1470 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: 10-06-2001
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Message 778 of 1309 (741052)
11-09-2014 11:08 AM
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Reply to: Message 777 by Theodoric
11-09-2014 10:57 AM
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Not a Muslim, just a garden-variety murder committed by someone under some sort of delusion, Christian-tinged of course, but you are right about the rest, Christians don't murder people because Christianity forbids murder, it doesn't advocate it. Islam, on the other hand, does. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 777 by Theodoric, posted 11-09-2014 10:57 AM | | Theodoric has replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9196 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.3
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Message 779 of 1309 (741053)
11-09-2014 11:13 AM
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Reply to: Message 778 by Faith
11-09-2014 11:08 AM
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How often are you going to resort to lame arguments like this?
No True Scotsman
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 778 by Faith, posted 11-09-2014 11:08 AM | | Faith has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 780 by Faith, posted 11-09-2014 11:20 AM | | Theodoric has replied |
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Faith
Suspended Member (Idle past 1470 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: 10-06-2001
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Message 780 of 1309 (741055)
11-09-2014 11:20 AM
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Reply to: Message 779 by Theodoric
11-09-2014 11:13 AM
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As long as you all have so much trouble with logic I suppose I'll feel obliged to try to straighten you out. The idea that I'm committing some kind of fallacy is itself a fallacy.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 779 by Theodoric, posted 11-09-2014 11:13 AM | | Theodoric has replied |
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