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Author Topic:   Why is evolution so controversial?
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 698 of 969 (739742)
10-27-2014 1:37 PM
Reply to: Message 695 by zaius137
10-27-2014 1:17 PM


Re: Recent origins
The evidence of a very recent ancestor is closer than ever. The linkage disequilibrium is moving too fast according to new findings. The suggestion is that evolution is moving 100 times faster than thought. If a individual was determined to be an ancestor of 500,000 tears ago they might only be as recent as 5,000 years.
Why isn't a reference provided for this? And how does this match up with your claim that there hasn't been enough time for man/chimp split millions of years ago?

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 695 by zaius137, posted 10-27-2014 1:17 PM zaius137 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 699 by zaius137, posted 10-27-2014 1:49 PM NoNukes has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 709 of 969 (739757)
10-27-2014 4:03 PM
Reply to: Message 704 by zaius137
10-27-2014 2:44 PM


Re: Any real comment?
zaius137 writes:
We are more different genetically from people living 5,000 years ago than they were different from Neanderthals." Genome study places modern humans in the evolutionary fast lane
Any real comments?
Comments are scarcely needed. The entire article absolutely shreds your position here without countering the theory of evolution in any way. Someone here might well have cited this paper in rebuttal to some of your assertions. My question for you is why you even bothered to link to this article?
quote:
The parallel to humans is obvious: The human population has grown from a few million people 10,000 years ago to about 200 million people at A.D. 0, to 600 million people in the year 1700, to more than 6.5 billion today. Prior to these times, the population was so small for so long that positive selection occurred at a glacial pace, Hawks says.
So the part you quoted is based on this kind of population data. What's your point.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 704 by zaius137, posted 10-27-2014 2:44 PM zaius137 has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 710 of 969 (739758)
10-27-2014 4:10 PM
Reply to: Message 707 by Coyote
10-27-2014 3:10 PM


Re: Recent origins
Coyote writes:
And I suppose that you'll be telling us next that all of our radiometric dating methods are wrong too?
If there is anything funnier than zaius137 pretending to understand biology, it is zaius137 rambling on about physics. Don't encourage him.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 707 by Coyote, posted 10-27-2014 3:10 PM Coyote has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 711 by sfs, posted 10-27-2014 4:16 PM NoNukes has not replied
 Message 715 by zaius137, posted 10-27-2014 5:31 PM NoNukes has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 781 of 969 (740060)
10-31-2014 11:51 AM
Reply to: Message 778 by zaius137
10-31-2014 2:31 AM


Re: Any real evidence for evolution, point on point.
A complete misrepresentation of my posts. I never claimed any of this.
You used indel count in an equation which required a mutation count, and then insisted that others provide peer reviewed documentation that you were wrong. That's pretty solid evidence that you don't understand the subject.
As for population growth, I agree that Taq has oversimplified your errors by saying that you are requiring population to grow at a constant rate. What you actually are claiming is that population always grows at an exponential rate where you've allowed for some small variation in the exponent.
Still pretty clear that you don't know what you are talking about. But keep on tilting zaius137.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 778 by zaius137, posted 10-31-2014 2:31 AM zaius137 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 783 by zaius137, posted 10-31-2014 11:15 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 787 of 969 (740094)
11-01-2014 1:24 AM
Reply to: Message 783 by zaius137
10-31-2014 11:15 PM


Re: Any real evidence for evolution, point on point.
I also noted the exponential growth rate can be normalized to to end population found here:
And the problems with that normalization were also pointed out by dwise1. Since populations do not always grow and indeed do not always change at exponential rates, when you adjust the exponent so that the end population is matched, the expression fails to match intermediate points.
Anyone can link any initial population to any end population with an exponential expression. But if the values in between are wrong, that is an indication that the model is wrong.
Yes, I used indel count of 95%, here are half a dozen papers promoting just that issue, similarity between 93% and 95%:
You are introducing a red herring. What is being questioned is not the particular indel count, but the use of the count in an equation that was expecting a mutation count. You have yet to justify doing that or to give a satisfactory response to anyone who has questioned you.
Go back and take a look at the last question Taq put to you with this point in mind.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 783 by zaius137, posted 10-31-2014 11:15 PM zaius137 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 789 by zaius137, posted 11-01-2014 1:55 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 794 of 969 (740151)
11-01-2014 4:15 PM
Reply to: Message 789 by zaius137
11-01-2014 1:55 PM


Re: Any real evidence for evolution, point on point.
Even if you count each indel as a single mutation because those mutations affect coding (my citations) you get ~125 million mutation events (~45 million in chimp and ~45 million in humans the rest exist in both) regardless of bp lengths. This gives you a best similarity of .125/6.4 or ~2%.
I yield. Counting an indel as single mutation is exactly what you cannot do because a single mutation can remove or insert lots of indels. I believe the second reference on that list you provided actually says that explicitly. And at least three people here have asked you about that point repeated.
So I have not challenged the similarity percentage at all. Maybe I would get to that point once I get you to see your initial error.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 789 by zaius137, posted 11-01-2014 1:55 PM zaius137 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 795 by zaius137, posted 11-01-2014 8:38 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 949 of 969 (741080)
11-09-2014 1:23 PM
Reply to: Message 948 by zaius137
11-09-2014 1:08 PM


Re: Crickets in a vacuum.
You are welcome to have the last substantive post on the topic. Is that a problem for you?

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 948 by zaius137, posted 11-09-2014 1:08 PM zaius137 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 950 by RAZD, posted 11-09-2014 1:51 PM NoNukes has not replied

  
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