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Author
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Topic: Homosexuality and Evo, Creo, and ID
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1463 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: 10-06-2001
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Message 814 of 1309 (741151)
11-10-2014 8:26 AM
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Reply to: Message 811 by Phat
11-10-2014 7:38 AM
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Re: Pleasing The All Smitey
While I agree with you that our main job is to preach the gospel of Christ's love in dying for sinners, you are wrong about the reason for pointing out that the world is coming under God's wrath. It's meant as warning. Ezekiel says we will be responsible for the blood of those we don't warn when we see the sword coming. We should be seeing the sword coming in these days for sure, and if you don't I think you are out of touch with what's happening in the world. It certainly has nothing to do with what YOU are doing, your best or not. There's also always the hope, futile though it often turns out to be, that someone will actually come to see that some things regarded as "progressive" in these days, such as gay marriage, are in fact a very bad thing. That's the whole point of being "salt and light." However, I do agree with you that it's easy to overemphasize all this, especially when encountering so much argument about every little thing as happens at EvC, and it's important to get back to the solution to the problem after describing the problem. I all too easily get way too deep into answering the odd objections people come up with here. But besides nations coming under God's wrath, we're all individually under God's wrath until we are saved in Christ. That's why He died. There's no way to understand the offer of grace until you understand that there's something to be saved FROM. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 811 by Phat, posted 11-10-2014 7:38 AM | | Phat has not replied |
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Faith
Suspended Member (Idle past 1463 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: 10-06-2001
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Message 816 of 1309 (741154)
11-10-2014 8:59 AM
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Reply to: Message 815 by jar
11-10-2014 8:44 AM
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Re: God's Wrath?
Since you've got it all figured out that there's nothing to worry about, why should I answer you? However, as I said to Phat, I generally can't resist answering objections here, so here's an example: Many Christians, and even Abraham Lincoln, regarded the Civil War as God's judgment/wrath on the nation for slavery. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 815 by jar, posted 11-10-2014 8:44 AM | | jar has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 817 by jar, posted 11-10-2014 9:05 AM | | Faith has replied |
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Faith
Suspended Member (Idle past 1463 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: 10-06-2001
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Message 818 of 1309 (741156)
11-10-2014 9:07 AM
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Reply to: Message 817 by jar
11-10-2014 9:05 AM
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Re: God's Wrath?
Judgment begins at the house of God.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 817 by jar, posted 11-10-2014 9:05 AM | | jar has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 819 by jar, posted 11-10-2014 9:12 AM | | Faith has not replied |
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Faith
Suspended Member (Idle past 1463 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: 10-06-2001
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Message 823 of 1309 (741255)
11-10-2014 5:33 PM
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Reply to: Message 822 by RAZD
11-10-2014 12:22 PM
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Re: Yes it is the lowest kind of propaganda
But I'm not interested, RAZD, I'm only interested in official state-recognized marriages on a par with heterosexual marriages. It's becoming clear that I was right, they haven't existed in history, it's a new thing.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 822 by RAZD, posted 11-10-2014 12:22 PM | | RAZD has replied |
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Faith
Suspended Member (Idle past 1463 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: 10-06-2001
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Message 825 of 1309 (741270)
11-10-2014 9:37 PM
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Reply to: Message 824 by Tangle
11-10-2014 5:51 PM
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ORe: Yes it is the lowest kind of propaganda
All I want to know is whether homosexual marriage has ever been recognized as legitimate in any culture prior to now. I don't think you answered that but I'm not at all sure what you were saying there.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 824 by Tangle, posted 11-10-2014 5:51 PM | | Tangle has not replied |
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Faith
Suspended Member (Idle past 1463 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: 10-06-2001
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Message 827 of 1309 (741295)
11-11-2014 6:26 AM
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Reply to: Message 826 by Jaderis
11-11-2014 3:18 AM
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Re: I suggest the reading problem is yours.
I'm always having to repent of my anger here, it's something I have yet to master but I'm working on it, praying about it, talking to God about it. I get frustrated with constant misinterpretations of what I'm saying because my point gets garbled. Could be pride, could be just frustration that the message isn't getting across. In any case I agree that my anger is a problem that's not yet under control. But I haven't condemned any homosexual or anyone for their sin, that is not what I'm arguing here. The argument is about what the nation does, not what individuals do. It's clear enough I think that unrepented sin will keep an individual out of the Kingdom of God, and that message comes up in context from time to time as it did in the quote you posted, but this thread is about what nations do with respect to legitimizing sin, which is dangerous for the nation. AND I don't lie, haven't lied about anything. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 826 by Jaderis, posted 11-11-2014 3:18 AM | | Jaderis has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 828 by Phat, posted 11-11-2014 10:42 AM | | Faith has replied |
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Faith
Suspended Member (Idle past 1463 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: 10-06-2001
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Message 829 of 1309 (741323)
11-11-2014 1:30 PM
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Reply to: Message 828 by Phat
11-11-2014 10:42 AM
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Re: Sins Of A Nation
Yes that's what I'm talking about. A nation brings itself under God's judgment when it enacts laws that oppose God's laws or otherwise supports or endorses an evil practice. The sins of the people don't necessarily affect the fortunes of a nation, it's when the nation officially endorses a position contrary to God's that it becomes a national problem. In our time, the US has legalized abortion which is murder, it's mostly done away with the death penalty which violates what God said to Noah about how the person who takes a human life must himself be put to death. (We do have to be sure we've got the right guy though). The liberalization of divorce laws could be pointed to as a problem. Certainly the treating of pornography by the Supreme Court as "freedom of speech" is a big blot against the nation. And now state after state is legitimizing gay marriage. We've piled up a lot of national sin here, a lot of it by twisting the First Amendment to mean the opposite of what it originally meant. And there are those who would add that this President's attitude toward Israel puts us even further in jeopardy. I've never been completely convinced of that view myself although I am a supporter of Israel, but there are those who think it's crucial as far as the wellbeing of the US goes. Signs that we are under judgment already include our open southern border which is a huge threat to the wellbeing of the nation. I might add that signs that Europe is under judgment include the growing hostile Muslim population there. I didn't think of that when frako insisted the Netherlands aren't under judgment but they have a huge growing Muslim population too that will probably become the source of murder and mayhem as soon as their numbers are large enough. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 828 by Phat, posted 11-11-2014 10:42 AM | | Phat has not replied |
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Faith
Suspended Member (Idle past 1463 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: 10-06-2001
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Message 831 of 1309 (741329)
11-11-2014 1:50 PM
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Reply to: Message 830 by Tangle
11-11-2014 1:47 PM
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Re: Sins Of A Nation
I'm sure that is a violation of one or more of the forum rules.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 830 by Tangle, posted 11-11-2014 1:47 PM | | Tangle has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 832 by Faith, posted 11-11-2014 2:07 PM | | Faith has not replied |
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Faith
Suspended Member (Idle past 1463 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: 10-06-2001
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Message 832 of 1309 (741333)
11-11-2014 2:07 PM
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Reply to: Message 831 by Faith
11-11-2014 1:50 PM
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Re: Sins Of A Nation
Everything I said is extrapolated from Biblical principles, nothing strange about it. The Old Testament is full of examples of nations coming under God's judgment, and the ways they are judged are described in Deuteronomy and Leviticus. Economic depression is one, famine, disease, invasion by foreigners, attack by armies. The Babylonian captivity was God's judgment for centuries of Israel's sins.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 831 by Faith, posted 11-11-2014 1:50 PM | | Faith has not replied |
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Faith
Suspended Member (Idle past 1463 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: 10-06-2001
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Message 836 of 1309 (741353)
11-11-2014 4:51 PM
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Reply to: Message 834 by frako
11-11-2014 3:49 PM
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Re: Sins Of A Nation
Nobody's saying you have to live in mine, but mine was believed by Jefferson and Lincoln, which is being discussed on the thread about the Civil War, so you can't say it's some weird idea of my own or some small group I belong to.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 834 by frako, posted 11-11-2014 3:49 PM | | frako has not replied |
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Faith
Suspended Member (Idle past 1463 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: 10-06-2001
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Message 837 of 1309 (741354)
11-11-2014 4:52 PM
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Reply to: Message 835 by RAZD
11-11-2014 4:45 PM
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Re: not persecuted for living their lives their way
I don't care if it's "state" authorized, there are other ways a practice is approved or disapproved by a culture, that's what I'm asking for. ABE: The point of course is that gay marriage is being forced on all of us by official decree. If it were just a matter of homosexuals setting up their own marriage rites and leaving the rest of us alone there wouldn't be all this brouhaha, but they are legally requiring it of the entire nation and bullying those who refuse it, and Christians will not accept it. So what I want to know is if there was ever anything like this anywhere before and I don't think there ever was. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 835 by RAZD, posted 11-11-2014 4:45 PM | | RAZD has seen this message but not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 838 by jar, posted 11-11-2014 6:21 PM | | Faith has not replied | | | Message 839 by PaulK, posted 11-12-2014 12:59 AM | | Faith has replied |
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Faith
Suspended Member (Idle past 1463 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: 10-06-2001
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Message 840 of 1309 (741388)
11-12-2014 1:53 AM
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Reply to: Message 839 by PaulK
11-12-2014 12:59 AM
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Re: not persecuted for living their lives their way
What is being forced on us is the requirement that we accept gay marriage as legitimate. This doesn't necessarily become a problem UNTIL we are asked to verbally or otherwise endorse it in some way, which a Christian cannot do. This is the basis for the horrible mistreatment of the Christians who would not lend their business services to endorsing gay marriage, which ought to be a protected freedom, but no longer. I've already described some of the "tolerant" tactics of the leftist gay rights activists on this thread I believe, lawsuits, heavy fines, destruction of property, a travesty in what was once considered to be a free country. For merely politely declining to use their business to validate gay marriage. There is every reason to expect that merely saying one opposes gay marriage could bring down vicious retaliation under these circumstances. Sounds like a totalitarian state to me, not the nation of the land of the free. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 839 by PaulK, posted 11-12-2014 12:59 AM | | PaulK has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 841 by PaulK, posted 11-12-2014 2:05 AM | | Faith has replied | | | Message 844 by jar, posted 11-12-2014 8:46 AM | | Faith has not replied |
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Faith
Suspended Member (Idle past 1463 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: 10-06-2001
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Message 842 of 1309 (741391)
11-12-2014 2:17 AM
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Reply to: Message 841 by PaulK
11-12-2014 2:05 AM
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Re: not persecuted for living their lives their way
You've already been informed about the mistreatment of the bakers in Oregon. There have been five victims of this evil legislation so far. Here's a description of the situation of the florist who refused to make arrangements for a gay wedding, from an email sent out by the Family Research Council:
Florist Case Stems from State's Intolerance We were told that same-sex marriage was about building homes -- not destroying others’. Unfortunately, that’s just another lie from a liberal movement bent on shattering Americans’ freedom, their livelihoods, and now, their property. Like dozens of conservative businesses, the owner of Washington State’s Arlene’s Flowers is finding out exactly how low the Left is willing to sink to demand conformity on marriage. Barronelle Stutzman, who drew the Left’s ire when she politely declined to make arrangements for a same-sex wedding, has been bogged down in a legal fight for almost two years just for exercising her First Amendment rights in the marketplace. Now, that fight may cost Barronelle more than customers. According to Alliance Defending Freedom, it could cost Stutzman her home too. In a sick twist to an already outrageous case, long-time customer Robert Ingersoll and his partner are not only suing Arlene’s Flowers -- but Barronelle personally. And they have the full weight of the Washington Attorney General’s office backing their case. In an unprecedented move, the state’s chief law enforcer, Bob Ferguson, injected himself into the dispute meant to punish Barronelle for refusing to check her faith at her business’s door. A punishment, experts say, that could leave Barronelle homeless. In the meantime, Stutzman’s attorneys at ADF are doing everything they can to stop the state from attacking Barronelle personally -- even filing a new court motion. Under Washington law, AG Ferguson has no grounds to sue Stuztman unless she’s been implicated in a type of fraud -- which is even farther-fetched than the original charge. The only frauds in this case are the liberals who insist this debate is just about love and tolerance. Where’s the tolerance for the Christians who are simply asking for the same freedom to live out their beliefs as the activists trying to silence them?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 841 by PaulK, posted 11-12-2014 2:05 AM | | PaulK has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 843 by PaulK, posted 11-12-2014 2:37 AM | | Faith has not replied | | | Message 845 by frako, posted 11-13-2014 10:22 AM | | Faith has not replied |
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Faith
Suspended Member (Idle past 1463 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: 10-06-2001
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Message 846 of 1309 (741609)
11-13-2014 12:51 PM
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I already pointed you to information about how the "tolerant" and "loving" gay rights people have screamed obscene epithets through the bakery door at the Christian couple who politely refused to make a cake for a gay wedding, and broke into their delivery truck and destroyed all their goods; and how a Christian counselor and his wife have been receiving death threats and disgusting stuff thrown on their property. And here's another story of similar "tolerance" by the LGBT crowd, issuing nice tolerant death threats. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Faith
Suspended Member (Idle past 1463 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: 10-06-2001
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So ends civilization
Well there it is, good for evil and evil for good, you are a child of your time and leftist indoctrination. Once it's become OK for people to object to a person's freedom of speech, which was guaranteed by the First Amendment for centuries, by threatening death and destroying their property, I'm afraid we've crossed over some kind of line into something worse than paganism, sheer barbarism. Unbelievable the enormities EvC people are willing to support here, calling them good.
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