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Author Topic:   The US Civil War as an example of God's Wrath.
GDR
Member (Idle past 209 days)
Posts: 5409
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005


Message 50 of 96 (741313)
11-11-2014 11:57 AM
Reply to: Message 37 by Faith
11-10-2014 4:31 PM


Faith writes:

We figure the Civil War was judgment because of slavery, which was the main issue it was fought over.

Once again this is the conclusion you come to when you worship an inerrant Bible instead of Jesus. Jesus, (and Paul for that matter), certainly would have opposed slavery in the US but He would have been just as opposed to the civil war.

Jesus lived in a country that virtually enslaved His fellow Jews and what did He do about it. He said love your enemy, turn the other cheek etc. His message was that the way you encounter injustice including slavery that we are to use God's message of peace and love.

It isn't always that clear about what the answer is to be but that is where we are called by Jesus to start. For example when we look at this war on ISIS how do we apply that message? Dropping bombs on people is not loving the ISIS fighters but maybe it is loving to those who are being persecuted by them. All we can do is to do our best to prayerfully work out a loving solution.

The Civil War was only God's judgement in the sense that it is the natural consequence of turning away from the commandment to love our neighbours as ourselves. Maybe the north should have purchased slaves and freed them. Maybe they should have provided safe places for slaves to escape to. Maybe they should have evangelized with the teachings of Jesus in the south where in many cases they espoused Christianity but them misused it in the way that fundamentalists or inerrantists do today.

Just maybe the Civil War was just another power grab with slavery being just another side issue.


He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.

Micah 6:8


This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Faith, posted 11-10-2014 4:31 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by NoNukes, posted 11-11-2014 12:05 PM GDR has not yet responded
 Message 53 by Faith, posted 11-11-2014 1:10 PM GDR has responded

  
GDR
Member (Idle past 209 days)
Posts: 5409
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005


(1)
Message 58 of 96 (741340)
11-11-2014 3:22 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by Faith
11-11-2014 1:10 PM


Faith writes:

Abraham Lincoln himself believed it was God's judgment for slavery, as I quoted him saying in his second inaugural address in Message 4, along with many Christians of his day and since. He even quoted the Bible. Perhaps if he were still around you'd lecture him about it too?

Hmmm... so now we are to take the word of Lincoln over the words and life of Jesus.

I think it is a huge mistake to merge your faith and your nationalism, (and your politics for that matter), into one.


He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.

Micah 6:8


This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by Faith, posted 11-11-2014 1:10 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by Faith, posted 11-11-2014 3:28 PM GDR has responded

  
GDR
Member (Idle past 209 days)
Posts: 5409
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005


Message 60 of 96 (741343)
11-11-2014 3:44 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by Faith
11-11-2014 3:28 PM


Faith writes:

Lincoln was quoting Jesus in that paragraph.
And what an absolutely absurd idea that we shouldn't appreciate the correct understanding of Christian teaching as applied by a leader of the nation. Two leaders quoted so far. And I may be able to dig up more. Absurd.

Lincoln was not quoting Jesus but simply saying God wants all men to be free. Of course I believe that too. However, there is nothing in what Lincoln said in that quote that justifies the Civil War. He says that all men should be free. There are alternatives to accomplishing that other than war.

So you believe that because Lincoln was president that we should take his word as gospel. I assume you would apply that to President Obama as well. Actually Obama in, (i think it was his acceptance speech but I'm not sure), quoted the Bible with the quote that I use as a signature.


He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.

Micah 6:8


This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by Faith, posted 11-11-2014 3:28 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by Faith, posted 11-11-2014 3:52 PM GDR has responded

  
GDR
Member (Idle past 209 days)
Posts: 5409
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005


Message 62 of 96 (741347)
11-11-2014 4:03 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by Faith
11-11-2014 3:52 PM


Faith writes:

I think you are referring to the Jefferson quote and misattributing it to Lincoln. Jefferson didn't quote Jesus but he did express the Biblical concept that God will judge a nation for its sins, slavery in this case.

You're right. Sorry

Faith writes:

Um, no, I don't believe that Lincoln is to be believed because he was President, I believe the fact should be respected that an American President expressed a true Biblical precept that was well recognized and accepted by Christians in general in his day and that he was one of many Presidents who understood and quoted the Bible as guide to the nation back in the day.

Which again of course holds true for President Obama when he used the quote I used as a signature.

Faith writes:

Also Lincoln did not start the war, the South did.

You did say that Lincoln saw it as God's judgement and from that I think that you are inferring that the war was God personally pleased with the way that judgement was exercised. I profoundly disagree with that statement.


He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.

Micah 6:8


This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by Faith, posted 11-11-2014 3:52 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 63 by Faith, posted 11-11-2014 4:47 PM GDR has not yet responded

  
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