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Author Topic:   Black Holes Don't Exist
Taz
Member (Idle past 1550 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 31 of 174 (741307)
11-11-2014 10:14 AM
Reply to: Message 29 by Colbard
11-10-2014 6:05 PM


Re: Black Hole found
Colbard writes:

Who said lots of matter clumped together would collapse?


Again, the question stands. Can you explain why lots of matter clumped together would not collapse under its own gravity? What happens when there is enough concentrated matter to overcome the pauli exclusion principle?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by Colbard, posted 11-10-2014 6:05 PM Colbard has responded

Replies to this message:
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 32 of 174 (741316)
11-11-2014 12:10 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by Colbard
11-10-2014 6:05 PM


Re: Black Hole found
I'd prefer that these mental cases kept their dark sentences to themselves.

Thank you for your opinion, but it has been rejected. Scientist will continue to make progress in uncovering the facts about our world despite your indignant opposition.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by Colbard, posted 11-10-2014 6:05 PM Colbard has responded

Replies to this message:
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Colbard
Member (Idle past 1650 days)
Posts: 300
From: Australia
Joined: 08-31-2014


Message 33 of 174 (741396)
11-12-2014 7:47 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by New Cat's Eye
11-11-2014 12:10 PM


Re: Black Hole found
Cat Sci writes:

Thank you for your opinion, but it has been rejected. Scientist will continue to make progress in uncovering the facts about our world despite your indignant opposition.

Of course, I am nothing, just an individual, but thanks for the benefit of the doubt.


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Colbard
Member (Idle past 1650 days)
Posts: 300
From: Australia
Joined: 08-31-2014


Message 34 of 174 (741397)
11-12-2014 7:49 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by zaius137
11-11-2014 2:17 AM


Black holes discovered
We have finally discovered the black holes, in between the left and right ears of science.

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Colbard
Member (Idle past 1650 days)
Posts: 300
From: Australia
Joined: 08-31-2014


Message 35 of 174 (741398)
11-12-2014 7:54 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by Taz
11-11-2014 10:14 AM


Mass and gravity thing
Taz writes:

Again, the question stands. Can you explain why lots of matter clumped together would not collapse under its own gravity? What happens when there is enough concentrated matter to overcome the pauli exclusion principle?

You definitely know more about this one than I do.
My reckoning is, if mass causes gravity, then as soon as mass collapses in any way the gravity will decrease as well, and the whole thing will reach equilibrium before too much of a phenomenon develops.


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PaulK
Member
Posts: 15393
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 36 of 174 (741400)
11-12-2014 7:59 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by Colbard
11-12-2014 7:54 AM


Re: Mass and gravity thing
Words fail me. The collapse of the material does not reduce the mass, it only concern grates it into a smaller volume. Now would that reduce the gravity ?

Even with a high school understanding of Newtonian gravity you should know that the gravitational force pulling the material inwards would increase (because it is getting closer to the centre, not because the mass is changing).


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Percy
Member
Posts: 18842
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 37 of 174 (741401)
11-12-2014 8:02 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by Colbard
11-12-2014 7:54 AM


Re: Mass and gravity thing
Colbard writes:

My reckoning is, if mass causes gravity, then as soon as mass collapses in any way the gravity will decrease as well, and the whole thing will reach equilibrium before too much of a phenomenon develops.

Even if all the mass of the Earth were to collapse into a tiny sphere an inch in diameter, its gravity would remain unchanged.

You are correct that gravity is a property of mass, but no mass disappears when "mass collapses" - it only becomes more dense. Since the amount of mass remains the same, the gravity remains the same.

--Percy


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Percy
Member
Posts: 18842
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 38 of 174 (741402)
11-12-2014 8:13 AM
Reply to: Message 36 by PaulK
11-12-2014 7:59 AM


Re: Mass and gravity thing
PaulK writes:

Even with a high school understanding of Newtonian gravity you should know that the gravitational force pulling the material inwards would increase (because it is getting closer to the centre, not because the mass is changing).

I'm puzzling over this one. I think you may be saying that as the diameter of a spherical mass is decreased (thereby increasing the density) that the gravitational force at the surface increases, but I'm not sure. If that's what you're saying, then good point.

On the other hand, as one ventures inside a spherical mass like the Earth (assume a hypothetical shaft from the surface to the center), gravity gradually decreases as one approaches the center, eventually reaching zero.

--Percy


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PaulK
Member
Posts: 15393
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.3


(1)
Message 39 of 174 (741406)
11-12-2014 8:24 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by Percy
11-12-2014 8:13 AM


Re: Mass and gravity thing
You're mostly right, but missing a bit.

Assuming that the density is uniform the effect of increased gravitational force applies everywhere except the exact centre. To explain, the gravity cancels out at the centre because you'd have an equal force pulling in every direction. With a denser sphere of the same mass the component forces would be greater, but still cancel out. But if you move away from the centre the net force towards the centre would be stronger in the denser sphere, at any given distance from the centre.

Edited by PaulK, : No reason given.


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Replies to this message:
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Colbard
Member (Idle past 1650 days)
Posts: 300
From: Australia
Joined: 08-31-2014


Message 40 of 174 (741410)
11-12-2014 8:42 AM


Mass and gravity
First of all I don't think that mass causes gravity. and secondly when you break the structure of the atom you lose its mass.
There is no such thing as collapsing matter down into a smaller unit than itself without disassembling its inner relations, and undoing matter altogether.

Matter is a weaving of two forces which give it certain time to and a certain space to exist.

Atoms can be compressed to a degree but not what you are talking about.

This assumption comes from the idea that matter is mostly empty space. No that empty space is not empty, not by a long shot. In fact the forces that reside and flow through matter are hundreds of thousands of times more powerful than matter.


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frako
Member
Posts: 2814
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 41 of 174 (741413)
11-12-2014 8:58 AM


Ok um if there are no black holes what are these densely packed fast moving stars orbiting?


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


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PaulK
Member
Posts: 15393
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 42 of 174 (741414)
11-12-2014 9:05 AM
Reply to: Message 40 by Colbard
11-12-2014 8:42 AM


Re: Mass and gravity
The fact that you have wacky ideas does not make your misunderstanding of real science any better.

This message is a reply to:
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 43 of 174 (741418)
11-12-2014 9:30 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by Colbard
11-12-2014 7:47 AM


Hey, you got something right!

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NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 44 of 174 (741432)
11-12-2014 10:52 AM
Reply to: Message 40 by Colbard
11-12-2014 8:42 AM


Re: Mass and gravity
...and secondly when you break the structure of the atom you lose its mass.

Total and complete crap. We know this not to be true from observation. Atoms are composed of protons, neutrons and electrons. In some cases those particles actually have more total mass after they've been separated then when they are assembled.

For example helium atoms are lighter than the combined weight of two protons and two neutrons.

There is no such thing as collapsing matter down into a smaller unit than itself

What does a 'smaller unit than itself' mean.

Matter is a weaving of two forces which give it certain time to and a certain space to exist.

What two forces?

In fact the forces that reside and flow through matter are hundreds of thousands of times more powerful than matter.

Forces are measured in newtons. How do you make a comparison between those forces and matter?

Maybe Son Goku can make lemonade out of this urine, but I cannot.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6583
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 4.1


Message 45 of 174 (741443)
11-12-2014 11:12 AM
Reply to: Message 40 by Colbard
11-12-2014 8:42 AM


Re: Mass and gravity
Do you have sources for what you are stating here? Maybe you are just wording things incorrectly. I have just a basic understanding physics, but I know that none of this conforms with anything I have learned.

I sent this on to a friend that is a physics professor. His response is that it sounds like the "new age, neo-christian gobbly gook" he sometimes hears in his intro physics courses. He says he can pick out all of the home schooled and church schooled kids in the first week. None of it makes sense, he wouldn't waste his time trying to decipher or correct what you wrote.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.


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