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Author Topic:   Should we teach both evolution and religion in school?
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 526 of 2073 (741584)
11-13-2014 11:31 AM
Reply to: Message 502 by Faith
11-12-2014 7:20 PM


Re: Coyotes call
Sure, just go down to your favorite casino in Vegas and play the Megabucks slot machine, or whatever the modern equivalent is, I haven't been inside a casino in years. If God said it, it will happen.
C'mon, you should think more carefully about what you're saying. When they pass the collection plate at your church, do you stand up and shout: "If God really wants you to have money, go to Vegas and put all the church funds on red"? Maybe you should --- but it's hypocritical to use this just as an excuse for not donating to the church of St. Adequate.
No, God has told me quite distinctly that he wants people to give me money, rather than me winning it through the sordid sin of gambling. Who are you to say that he's wrong?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 502 by Faith, posted 11-12-2014 7:20 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 529 by Faith, posted 11-13-2014 12:43 PM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Larni
Member (Idle past 164 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 527 of 2073 (741585)
11-13-2014 11:32 AM
Reply to: Message 480 by Colbard
11-12-2014 8:13 AM


Re: Back on track
And be tested on it, and if they fail they will have a mundane career.
My god, girl, did you fail an exam? You seem to have such a wide-on for stereotyping scientists or people who did well at school.
Maybe you should try making lemonade?

The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer.
-Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53
The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286
Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134

This message is a reply to:
 Message 480 by Colbard, posted 11-12-2014 8:13 AM Colbard has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 528 of 2073 (741591)
11-13-2014 11:47 AM
Reply to: Message 521 by mike the wiz
11-13-2014 8:41 AM


Re: Coyotes call
At least that line of evidence, has me foxed (But fortunately for me, Affirmation-of-the consequent is fallacious). [...] It is ironic, but most evolutionists here won't know why the ponen/tollens rule apply to confirmation/falsification evidence, when they apply, how they are qualified, etc . I do know
But mike, the entire scientific method is built on affirming the consequent. It's a fallacy in pure logic, and essential to science. The best we can say of any scientific concept is that all the evidence is consistent with it being true. We say, for example, if the theory of gravity is correct, then we would see the following evidence. We see the evidence, we conclude that the theory is correct. This is affirming the consequent. Evolutionary theories are not at all unique in this respect, so to go around complaining about affirming the consequent is partial, it's partisan, it's special pleading unless you apply it to all knowledge acquired on an empirical basis.
Whether your scepticism be as absolute and sincere as you pretend, we shall learn by and by, when the company breaks up: we shall then see, whether you go out at the door or the window; and whether you really doubt if your body has gravity, or can be injured by its fall; according to popular opinion, derived from our fallacious senses, and more fallacious experience.
For example, I say:
* If you drink half a pint of bleach, it will make you very sick, or kill you.
* If you drink half a pint of water, it will slake your thirst.
* If you drink half a pint of vodka, you will get drunk.
Do you disagree with these propositions? No. How were they arrived at? By affirming the consequent. I note that these things have been true, so I affirm the consequent and conclude the rule that they will always be true, so I deduce from these rules the particular consequences listed above. We cannot do science --- we cannot get through everyday life --- without affirming the consequent. But you don't hate this logical fallacy so much as to drink a bleach and vodka cocktail. You hate it just so much as to complain about evolution. You complain about "affirming the consequent" when it doesn't affect you, but when your own life hangs in the balance, you affirm the consequent like anything, and prefer the glass of water over the glass of bleach.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 521 by mike the wiz, posted 11-13-2014 8:41 AM mike the wiz has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 529 of 2073 (741607)
11-13-2014 12:43 PM
Reply to: Message 526 by Dr Adequate
11-13-2014 11:31 AM


Re: Coyotes call
He says you're wrong.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 526 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-13-2014 11:31 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 530 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-13-2014 12:54 PM Faith has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 530 of 2073 (741612)
11-13-2014 12:54 PM
Reply to: Message 529 by Faith
11-13-2014 12:43 PM


Re: Coyotes call
He says you're wrong.
Nu-uh. God says I'm right.
And there we have it. What do we do when Jack says "God says the sky is green" and Jane says "God says the sky is blue"? Well, we might look at the sky.
And if Jack says "God says that the Earth is only 6,000 years old", then we might look at the Earth.
What else can we do, when faced with claims of divine revelation, except try to find out if they're true? Which means that the claims of divine revelation aren't evidence in themselves, they're the exact things that we're looking for evidence for or against.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 529 by Faith, posted 11-13-2014 12:43 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 531 by Faith, posted 11-13-2014 1:05 PM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 531 of 2073 (741614)
11-13-2014 1:05 PM
Reply to: Message 530 by Dr Adequate
11-13-2014 12:54 PM


Re: Coyotes call
What Jack says is irrelevant, but thousands of theologians and millions of believers for thousands of years saying it is something else.
And when we have personal experience of the fact that the book known as divine revelation holds together on everything that impinges on our lives, and holds together logically on all the main points concerning salvation, and produces witnesses galore to miraculous events, we have every reason to believe along with the millions before us who have also believed it, that it is the perfect truth of God's word on every subject it touches.
So of course we know there was a worldwide Flood as God's word tells us there was, and it makes amazingly logical sense in the context of the entire revelation of sin and judgment and grace, so yes we may indeed look at the Earth for evidence of it, and it's pretty clear to me that we see it in the strata and the fossils. Oh in many other things too but those are the main things.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 530 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-13-2014 12:54 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 532 by New Cat's Eye, posted 11-13-2014 1:13 PM Faith has replied
 Message 537 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-13-2014 1:27 PM Faith has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 532 of 2073 (741616)
11-13-2014 1:13 PM
Reply to: Message 531 by Faith
11-13-2014 1:05 PM


Re: Coyotes call
but thousands of theologians and millions of believers for thousands of years saying it is something else.
Are you talking about the Earth being flat and the sun revolving around it?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 531 by Faith, posted 11-13-2014 1:05 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 533 by Faith, posted 11-13-2014 1:16 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 533 of 2073 (741618)
11-13-2014 1:16 PM
Reply to: Message 532 by New Cat's Eye
11-13-2014 1:13 PM


Re: Coyotes call
It doesn't say that. You need to get your facts straight.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 532 by New Cat's Eye, posted 11-13-2014 1:13 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 534 by New Cat's Eye, posted 11-13-2014 1:19 PM Faith has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 534 of 2073 (741620)
11-13-2014 1:19 PM
Reply to: Message 533 by Faith
11-13-2014 1:16 PM


Re: Coyotes call
It? I was talking about all those people saying those things.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 533 by Faith, posted 11-13-2014 1:16 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 535 by Faith, posted 11-13-2014 1:24 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 535 of 2073 (741625)
11-13-2014 1:24 PM
Reply to: Message 534 by New Cat's Eye
11-13-2014 1:19 PM


Re: Coyotes call
What I said was that they all believe "it," meaning God's word, that's what they are saying.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 534 by New Cat's Eye, posted 11-13-2014 1:19 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 547 by New Cat's Eye, posted 11-13-2014 3:54 PM Faith has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


(2)
Message 536 of 2073 (741626)
11-13-2014 1:25 PM
Reply to: Message 522 by mike the wiz
11-13-2014 8:49 AM


Flood evidence and some thoughts for Mike
Here's some stuff I came up with earlier:
Personally I'd expect to see the following if almost all rocks were deposited by a world-wide flood.
1) Evaporites and lava flows which cooled under air would only be seen at the top or the bottom of the column. Neither could form underwater. Undisturbed surface features, coral reefs and developed paleosols would only be found at the bottom. Likewise angular unconformities.
2) There would be an upward-fining layer, perhaps a several yards thick containing a large majority of fossils, all sorted hydrodnamically. There would be no unconformities of any sort within this layer.
3) If the majority of geological features were formed by a flood all mountains should be clearly pre-flood structures, excepting volcanoes.
4) Geological evidence of continental drift would be absent. There's no time for significant drift. Any strata matched between continents would simply continue across the seabed, except where they have been pushed apart by rifts, and that for only a few kilometers at most.
In a more realistic old-Earth scenario I'd expect the Flood layer to be a relatively small part of the geological record.
And here are some thoughts on evidence:
To get a murder conviction you have to show that there was a murder. But suppose that the prosecution stopped there. If the defendant's lawyer claimed "there is no evidence that my client is guilty of this crime" would you say that he didn't understand evidence ? Or would you think his comment reasonable, given that the prosecution presented no evidence that the defendant was the one who did it ?
Can you call a cemetery "a record of mass death" just because a lot of bodies are buried there ? Wouldn't you need more evidence to conclude that ? And what if the evidence showed that the bodies accumulated relatively slowly over a long period of time ? Wouldn't it be wrong to say that the cemetery was a "record of mass death" ?
Edited by PaulK, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 522 by mike the wiz, posted 11-13-2014 8:49 AM mike the wiz has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 537 of 2073 (741627)
11-13-2014 1:27 PM
Reply to: Message 531 by Faith
11-13-2014 1:05 PM


Re: Coyotes call
What Jack says is irrelevant, but thousands of theologians and millions of believers for thousands of years saying it is something else.
So if a lot of people say "There is no God but God, and Muhammad is his Prophet", then ...
And when we have personal experience of the fact that the book known as divine revelation holds together on everything that impinges on our lives, and holds together logically on all the main points concerning salvation, and produces witnesses galore to miraculous events, we have every reason to believe along with the millions before us who have also believed it, that it is the perfect truth of God's word on every subject it touches.
"There is no God but God, and Muhammad is his Prophet."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 531 by Faith, posted 11-13-2014 1:05 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 538 by Faith, posted 11-13-2014 1:32 PM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 538 of 2073 (741629)
11-13-2014 1:32 PM
Reply to: Message 537 by Dr Adequate
11-13-2014 1:27 PM


Re: Coyotes call
If you don't have the brain to recognize the extreme difference I won't bother trying to straighten you out.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 537 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-13-2014 1:27 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 539 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-13-2014 1:36 PM Faith has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 539 of 2073 (741631)
11-13-2014 1:36 PM
Reply to: Message 538 by Faith
11-13-2014 1:32 PM


Re: Coyotes call
If you don't have the brain to recognize the extreme difference I won't bother trying to straighten you out.
If you are genuinely incapable of arguing for your own point of view, then maybe you should not participate on a forum devoted to debate.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 538 by Faith, posted 11-13-2014 1:32 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 540 by Faith, posted 11-13-2014 1:40 PM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 540 of 2073 (741633)
11-13-2014 1:40 PM
Reply to: Message 539 by Dr Adequate
11-13-2014 1:36 PM


Re: Coyotes call
Says the one who didn't debate anything but slung out an incredibly stupid comparison.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 539 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-13-2014 1:36 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 541 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-13-2014 2:20 PM Faith has replied

  
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