The C.C.O.I. (Christian Cult Of Ignorance) and Willful Ignorance

The full revelation of the Messiah was not given in the Old Testament, it had to wait for the New Testament, but there are plenty of hints in the OT that He will be God Himself incarnate anyway. Then there's the reference in Psalm 2: "Kiss the Son..."

Then the full revelation of Allah was not given in the Old Testament, but it had to wait for the Koran.Same logic applies.

Oh brother. You must love Islam. Well, you'll probably get your chance to choose beheading or joining them before too long.The Messiah was known to the Jews through prophecy throughout their history, they never heard of Mohammed or Allah and repudiate them to this day.

Yes, because christians have never done that, right?Wrong. When Charlemagne conquered the Visigoths he gave them two choices: death or conversion to christianity. Never was the Messiah described as the Son of God, and Jesus failed to fulfill those prophecies as you have been shown time and again.

If Jesus was the Messiah to the Jews, then why are there still Jews?

Well Jesus certainly doesn't fit any definition of the Jewish Messiah and even by the totally new definition created by Christianity when they realized the end was not gonna come within the time period Jesus promised, Jesus has to be considered a failed Messiah.Now I believe that Jesus is the Messiah but so far he is still a failed Messiah. That may still change in the future but so far it's still simply an unsupported belief.

Charlemagne was the Pope's man. Romanists have done those things, yes, not Christians.abe: Actually, the way things are going, maybe you'll have the choice of beheading or joining either Islam or Romanism. /abeWhat you think fulfills prophecy is worth nothing. Jesus fulfilled all the prophecies, as known to anyone who understands how to understand.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Sure, we all know that there are discrepancies in the stories. However, they are consistent in saying that they walked, talked, touched and even ate with Jesus and that He was in some sense physical, but it was a renewed physicality. As I said earlier that in some way the body of the resurrected Jesus connected God's space, (call it heaven if you like), with our space. Part of the point is that ultimately God's space and our space will be fully joined. It isn't about telling us that we are going to live on past this life and worrying about where we are going to go next. That is what Faith is selling. If that was all this was about then there would be no point in doing what God did through Jesus. All He would have to do is to make it happen.The point is that yes, this isn't the end but that we have a job to do in this life. The Biblical and Christian message is that we are to be stewards of this creation. I recently read a book titled "Salvation Means Creation Healed". We are called to care for each other, all life and the planet itself in anticipation of the time when all of creation is healed and fully revealed to us in a great act by God of the renewal or re-creation of all that there is. There can be no doubt that the first Jesus followers became Jesus followers because of the firm conviction that Jesus had died and come out the other side in a renewed physicality. They built there whole theology around that belief.The first theologian Paul stated that if this wasn't true then "we" are the most to be pitied. If I didn't believe it to be the case I would simply not bother with church or things Christian and I wouldn't call myself a Christian. I know there are those like Dom Crossan who argue against this but Dom, ( a great guy by the way), is not a Christian in the religious sense but in the philosophical sense only. Well if the resurrected Jesus just reappeared in the same way that others have experiences of visions of loved ones who have died then once again we simply have another failed messiah. It makes Jesus simply a well meaning crank.

Roman Catholics are christians.What next? No true scotsman puts sugar on his porridge? Once again, it is the Faith strategy for dealing with reality. If the evidence does not agree with you, stick your head in the sand and believe even harder.

You make my point yourself Faith. You have just given us numerous other names for God. In French it is Dieu. Is that a different god?Yes Christians are the only ones that believe that God revealed His full nature in Jesus. However just as the early Jews struggled with trying to understand their deity other cultures around the world have done the same.It isn't whether we call that deity "I Am", God, Dieu, Allah or Zeus. It is about our understanding of the nature of the deity. As a Christian I get my understanding of God's nature through Jesus which is different than what you get through believing in an inerrant Bible.

They also repudiate Jesus to this day.

Well, no. Not all the accounts mention eating with Jesus or touching Jesus. Not even sure there is any evidence to support that assertion in any of the resurrection accounts. That I agree with. Okay. If that is what you believe it's fine. But so far Jesus is still just a failed messiah but that does not mean the same as crank.

So what? It isn't in the resurrection accounts. It is in Isaiah, Ephesians and Revelation off the top of my head. If Jesus wasn't resurrected then there would be no point in giving any credibility to those assertions. The resurrection accounts are simply the accounts of what they observed and experienced. It reamined to others like Paul to attempt to understand what it all meant.Can I point to something irrefutable. Of course not. It is after all a faith. You are able, as am I, to accept that Christian philosophy makes sense of our world. However, I feel the same about Christian theology or religiosity which you appear to reject. What would you call someone today who went around claiming that he was God's anointed one, and that he spoke for God and could forgive sin on behalf of God?If Jesus was not resurrected as the first Jesus followers believed then he was a crank, which is not saying that His social message wasn't valid. It does mean though that there is no reason to give His message any more credibility than Gandhi or Buddha. Without the physical resurrection of Jesus, Christianity is a social movement only and is a sham as a religion.

You are missing the difference between His Name and a generic designation for gods or God. You are a human being, that's a generic designation, but that's not your name.

My parents decided on my name just as people in the past decided on what they would call their deity. They are all just words.We have taken the word god in the generic sense and turned it into God as the name of our deity.Even from your inerrant position you say that God came up with "I Am", but even that is just a translation from the original Hebrew, done hundreds of years later. Words are man made and God. or I Am, are man made words, as is Allah. Again, it is our understanding of the nature of our deity that matters.