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Author | Topic: The C.C.O.I. (Christian Cult Of Ignorance) and Willful Ignorance | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 414 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Of course you can, unless you are a Calvinist.
We can love God and our neighbors whether we have ever heard of Jesus or any gospels or repented anything. The end is no more at hand today than it was 2000 years ago. Following the two Great Commandments is about living, not dying. But Calvinists have never been able to do that.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
Faith writes: jar writes: Repent and believe, you can't do the rest until after that. Faith writes:
You really haven't read the Bible have you Faith.
Jesus said Repent and believe. That's all we're supposed to do. quote: Are you saying that people are unable to love their neighbors as themselves if they do not repent and believe?
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Read it and believe it is what I'm saying. You have to repent and believe, those were the first words of Jesus. There's a lot to the Bible to obey but you start with Repent and believe. Read it and believe it, that's my message. I refuse to get dragged off the message.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9140 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.3
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It is just bronze age tales, not impressed, very derivative. And not very original. Been there, done that, have the t shirt.
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 2.1 |
jar writes:
Truth matters
If people believe then does it matter whether or not the belief is based on reality?jar writes:
Yes
And aren't Taoism and Buddhism religions?jar writes:
Yes
And is God alive?jar writes:
Unknowable
Can you apply the terms alive or dead to a supernatural entity?jar writes:
Love God which any theist can do. What are the two Great Commandments?Love your neighbour which anyone can do.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17825 Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
That's a lot to pack into one statement. Especially when you have Jesus telling people to believe books that hadn't even been written. Want to quote the verse in context?
It gets worse still when we consider that you've told us the the Gospels claim to have been written before the destruction of the Temple, to that the authors all claimed to be eye-witnesses, neither of which is true. And yet you have problems with things that the Bible does say. Like the fact that Leviticus does not make a distinction between "moral" and "ceremonial" law. Or that Daniel's "End Times" are set before Jesus was born. And I cannot think that you truly believe Matthew 7:1-5. You certainly don't act like it!
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jar Member (Idle past 414 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
GDR writes: jar writes:
Truth matters If people believe then does it matter whether or not the belief is based on reality? LOL But there is no way while still alive to know the truth when it comes to whether or not Jesus actually lived at all.
GDR writes: jar writes:
Yes
And is God alive?jar writes:
Unknowable Can you apply the terms alive or dead to a supernatural entity? If it is unknowable to apply the terms alive or dead to a supernatural entity then how can you answer "Yes" to the question "Is God alive?"Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 2.1 |
jar writes:
...and there is no way we can actually know whether Julius Caesar lived or not.
But there is no way while still alive to know the truth when it comes to whether or not Jesus actually lived at all. jar writes: If it is unknowable to apply the terms alive or dead to a supernatural entity then how can you answer "Yes" to the question "Is God alive?" It is my belief that God is alive. If you are talking about a generic supernatural entity then I have no idea.He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9140 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.3 |
...and there is no way we can actually know whether Julius Caesar lived or not That lame argument does not fly. We have libraries of contemporary historical evidence for Julius Caesar. There is absolutely nothing for a historical Jesus Christ.Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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jar Member (Idle past 414 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
...and there is no way we can actually know whether Julius Caesar lived or not. Actually yes, we can know whether or not Julius Caesar lived or not with a VERY high degree of certainty. But that is not at all true when it comes to Jesus. There are no coins bearing Jesus likeness, no statues, no non Biblical contemporary references but we have all of those things when it comes to Julius Caesar.
It is my belief that God is alive. If you are talking about a generic supernatural entity then I have no idea.
How do you apply the terms alive or dead to God? What does that mean?Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
You really ought to listen to some orthodox traditional Protestant preachers some time. Everything you say in this post is wrong, especially your misreading of what it means to judge another.
I just want to answer the one complaint you make about the ceremonial law: Jesus fulfilled ALL the laws of the Old Testament and all of them stopped operating for believers except the moral law because that is of the very nature of God Himself. Scripture tells us that Jesus abolished the law that had formed a barrier between Jew and Gentile:
For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one, and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace, (Ephesians 2:14—15) Here's an article on it. Their understanding of cleanness such as clean foods required them not to associate with Gentiles. That was broken by Christ. Try reading the Bible with a simple honest heart instead of imposing your own ideas on it. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17825 Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
quote: I'm only telling you what the Bible says. If "orthodox traditional Protestant preachers" disagree with the Bible, that's not a reaon to believe them.
quote: That really doesn't address my point the the distinction is absent from Leviticus.
quote: If you did that you would know that I was right. Edited by PaulK, : No reason given.
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GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 2.1 |
jar writes: Actually yes, we can know whether or not Julius Caesar lived or not with a VERY high degree of certainty. But that is not at all true when it comes to Jesus. There are no coins bearing Jesus likeness, no statues, no non Biblical contemporary references but we have all of those things when it comes to Julius Caesar. This is a red herring and I have no doubt that Julius Caesar lived with a high degree of certainty. However, the Bible is not one source. There are several authors talking about Jesus in several books that are collected together. In addition as Luke says in his Gospel the Gospels themselves come from a variety of sources. However, I agree we can't know that Jesus existed just as we can't know he didn't. There is no evidence to show that He didn't. (I know you can't prove a negative.)
jar writes: How do you apply the terms alive or dead to God? What does that mean? You tell me. You asked the question. Edited by GDR, : typoHe has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
You have to repent and believe, those were the first words of Jesus. Chapter and verse?
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jar Member (Idle past 414 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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The Bible is an anthology of anthologies edited by a bias group who decided what the content would be.
GDR writes: However, I agree we can't know that Jesus existed just as we can't know he didn't. There is no evidence to show that He didn't. Nor have I tried to show Jesus never existed. What I have said is it doesn't really matter; Christianity today and in the past was based on belief not facts.
GDR writes: jar writes: How do you apply the terms alive or dead to God? What does that mean? You tell me. You asked the question. But I cannot tell you since I cannot see how the terms alive or dead can have any meaning in relation to a supernatural entity. I do not assert that God is alive or Jesus is alive. AbE:
GDR writes: However, the Bible is not one source. There are several authors talking about Jesus in several books that are collected together. In addition as Luke says in his Gospel the Gospels themselves come from a variety of sources. But it is not a red herring or even a slippery dick. How many authors have written about King Arthur or Robin Hood or Sherlock Holmes or Dick Tracy? And their sources come from a variety of sources. Edited by jar, : see AbE:Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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