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Author Topic:   Should we teach both evolution and religion in school?
Colbard
Member (Idle past 3410 days)
Posts: 300
From: Australia
Joined: 08-31-2014


Message 796 of 2073 (744220)
12-09-2014 7:23 AM
Reply to: Message 795 by RAZD
12-08-2014 5:46 PM


Re: Random ≠ Accident
Keep dicing.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 795 by RAZD, posted 12-08-2014 5:46 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
Colbard
Member (Idle past 3410 days)
Posts: 300
From: Australia
Joined: 08-31-2014


Message 797 of 2073 (744221)
12-09-2014 7:30 AM
Reply to: Message 794 by Theodoric
12-08-2014 4:21 PM


Re: How Should We be Teaching Science?
I did not come from there, and neither do I have pictures of people hanging from their tails in the sepia section of my family album.
So you don't understand the swamp, then maybe the scrapings of an alien's elbow might have started life here?
You can make up what you want, or better have no opinion and just follow the crowd.
Surely after Dr Adequate's assessment of your brains compared to mine, you should be able to come to a mighty high decision on that Q.
Oh, but I must be a troll because I don't reveal my real age or name, unlike honest NoNukes or Coyote the Native American, or Jar the speaking cat.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 794 by Theodoric, posted 12-08-2014 4:21 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 798 by Pressie, posted 12-09-2014 7:50 AM Colbard has replied
 Message 799 by herebedragons, posted 12-09-2014 8:30 AM Colbard has replied
 Message 803 by Theodoric, posted 12-09-2014 9:03 AM Colbard has not replied

  
Pressie
Member
Posts: 2103
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


Message 798 of 2073 (744222)
12-09-2014 7:50 AM
Reply to: Message 797 by Colbard
12-09-2014 7:30 AM


Carbon dating coins
You did mention carbon dating coins, though. Quite a clown.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 797 by Colbard, posted 12-09-2014 7:30 AM Colbard has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 800 by Colbard, posted 12-09-2014 8:38 AM Pressie has not replied

  
herebedragons
Member (Idle past 876 days)
Posts: 1517
From: Michigan
Joined: 11-22-2009


Message 799 of 2073 (744225)
12-09-2014 8:30 AM
Reply to: Message 797 by Colbard
12-09-2014 7:30 AM


To troll or not to troll?
There are different ideas as to what makes a person a troll, but IMO, essentially what it boils down to is someone who continually posts with the express intention of invoking an emotional response. And then when they get the emotional response they wanted, they decry how impossible it is to have a productive conversation because of the emotional responses. The troll rarely, if ever, presents actual arguments, but focuses on the fault of his / her opponents for derailing the discussion.
So does that description fit you? If so, you might be a troll. If not present your actual arguments.
HBD

Whoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca
"Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem.
Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 797 by Colbard, posted 12-09-2014 7:30 AM Colbard has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 802 by Colbard, posted 12-09-2014 8:51 AM herebedragons has replied

  
Colbard
Member (Idle past 3410 days)
Posts: 300
From: Australia
Joined: 08-31-2014


Message 800 of 2073 (744226)
12-09-2014 8:38 AM
Reply to: Message 798 by Pressie
12-09-2014 7:50 AM


Re: Carbon dating coins
Pressie writes:
You did mention carbon dating coins, though. Quite a clown.
Carbon dating is the holy grail of evolution. It's entire structure rests on that poor brick, and many other poor foundations like it have been buttressed to keep the confounded thing from looking unsupported.
So why not introduce the topic of dating with a holed story? It's a perfect mockery in return for the instant rebuttals of anything that comes near this tottering mess called evolution.
Pages and pages of arguments for it, but all the while the topic of the thread is derailed and ignored, because some people cannot see any value in creationism or ID.
Some people would rather bend their energies disproving a lone class incident of no significance, than see an ounce of creationism or the Bible.
So if and when people are not prepared to listen, give them what they want to engage in, -useless arguments.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 798 by Pressie, posted 12-09-2014 7:50 AM Pressie has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 801 by jar, posted 12-09-2014 8:49 AM Colbard has not replied
 Message 804 by Tangle, posted 12-09-2014 9:14 AM Colbard has not replied
 Message 805 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-09-2014 9:24 AM Colbard has not replied
 Message 806 by RAZD, posted 12-09-2014 9:36 AM Colbard has not replied
 Message 807 by Coyote, posted 12-09-2014 10:48 AM Colbard has not replied
 Message 808 by ringo, posted 12-09-2014 12:07 PM Colbard has not replied
 Message 815 by Larni, posted 12-09-2014 3:42 PM Colbard has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 413 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 801 of 2073 (744228)
12-09-2014 8:49 AM
Reply to: Message 800 by Colbard
12-09-2014 8:38 AM


Re: Carbon dating coins
Carbon dating is the holy grail of evolution. It's entire structure rests on that poor brick, and many other poor foundations like it have been buttressed to keep the confounded thing from looking unsupported.
Again, you are simply showing your utter ignorance of science, reality or history. Radio Carbon dating is useful for the recent past, maybe sixty thousand years, but evolution has been going on for at least four billion years.
Pages and pages of arguments for it, but all the while the topic of the thread is derailed and ignored, because some people cannot see any value in creationism or ID.
So far no one has ever been able to produce any evidence that might support Creationism or ID having any value. Perhaps you might provide some?
Some people would rather bend their energies disproving a lone class incident of no significance, than see an ounce of creationism or the Bible.
Maybe you can produce an ounce of Creationism or the Bible. So far you have shown a total lack of understand of either.
Have you ever actually read the Bible?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 800 by Colbard, posted 12-09-2014 8:38 AM Colbard has not replied

  
Colbard
Member (Idle past 3410 days)
Posts: 300
From: Australia
Joined: 08-31-2014


Message 802 of 2073 (744229)
12-09-2014 8:51 AM
Reply to: Message 799 by herebedragons
12-09-2014 8:30 AM


Re: To troll or not to troll?
Herebedragons writes:
what makes a person a troll, but IMO, essentially what it boils down to is someone who continually posts with the express intention of invoking an emotional response.
So now, if people don't want to accept responsibility for their own actions and feelings, anybody can be blamed for an inconvenient response and be called a troll and banned? Is that how it works?
If you are so sensitive and offended at anything that might challenge your view on evolution, what are you doing here, responding to me in such a thread? It's like watching a movie you hate isn't it?
I cannot be blamed for trolling when you are the one compelled to do things which annoy you. Where is the responsibility to yourself or are you are helplessly ill and waiting for an adaptation into a more complex and intelligent creature? It won't happen by chance - and it will never happen, no matter how much time passes.
It's time to give up evolution and become creative.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 799 by herebedragons, posted 12-09-2014 8:30 AM herebedragons has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 809 by herebedragons, posted 12-09-2014 1:39 PM Colbard has not replied
 Message 811 by RAZD, posted 12-09-2014 1:53 PM Colbard has not replied
 Message 812 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-09-2014 2:19 PM Colbard has not replied
 Message 814 by Tanypteryx, posted 12-09-2014 2:46 PM Colbard has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9133
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 803 of 2073 (744230)
12-09-2014 9:03 AM
Reply to: Message 797 by Colbard
12-09-2014 7:30 AM


Re: How Should We be Teaching Science?
You still have nor explained what "an accident in a swamp" has to do with evolution. Please explain.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 797 by Colbard, posted 12-09-2014 7:30 AM Colbard has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9503
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.6


(2)
Message 804 of 2073 (744232)
12-09-2014 9:14 AM
Reply to: Message 800 by Colbard
12-09-2014 8:38 AM


Re: Carbon dating coins
Colbard writes:
Carbon dating is the holy grail of evolution. It's entire structure rests on that poor brick, and many other poor foundations like it have been buttressed to keep the confounded thing from looking unsupported.
I'm not sure why we bother correcting you anymore - you're oblivious to information, but just in case you ever care about not making a fool of yourself.....Evolution was discovered in the early 19th century and published in 1860. Radioactivity wasn't discovered until 30+ years later but radiocarbon dating wasn't invented until 40 years after that.
Radiometric dating is not required for evolution but it IS required by creationists because had creation happened in the last 10,000 years, it would prove it.
It's the same kind of thing with genetics, evolution was accepted by science well before there was any knowledge of genetics. Genetics could have completety debunked evolution as a theory by disproving common ancestry. Instead it fitted in beautifully.
Scientific theories are cool like that - they're built from multiple sources of independent evidence, each one capable of proving the whole wrong.
So if you have any evidence to disprove any of these things, it'd be great to hear from you.
(Yeh, right.)

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 800 by Colbard, posted 12-09-2014 8:38 AM Colbard has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 303 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 805 of 2073 (744233)
12-09-2014 9:24 AM
Reply to: Message 800 by Colbard
12-09-2014 8:38 AM


Re: Carbon dating coins
Carbon dating is the holy grail of evolution. It's entire structure rests on that poor brick ...
Can anyone possibly be so ignorant as to believe this?
So why not introduce the topic of dating with a holed story?
Because telling lies is naughty.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 800 by Colbard, posted 12-09-2014 8:38 AM Colbard has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 810 by herebedragons, posted 12-09-2014 1:42 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1424 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 806 of 2073 (744236)
12-09-2014 9:36 AM
Reply to: Message 800 by Colbard
12-09-2014 8:38 AM


try again
Pressie writes:
You did mention carbon dating coins, though. Quite a clown.
Carbon dating is the holy grail of evolution. It's entire structure rests on that poor brick, and many other poor foundations like it have been buttressed to keep the confounded thing from looking unsupported.
Nope. Evolution existed before carbon dating and all that carbon dating provides is more accurate data for the last 50,000 years of the natural history of life on earth.
We could toss carbon dating in the dust bin tomorrow and all of evolution would be just as valid, just as real, and just as good an explanation for the evolution of diversity of life on earth
... because some people cannot see any value in creationism or ID.
Because they are not science, they are beliefs. They have as much credence as your posts.
Some people would rather bend their energies disproving a lone class incident of no significance, than see an ounce of creationism or the Bible.
So if and when people are not prepared to listen, give them what they want to engage in, -useless arguments.
Show an ounce and we can talk about it. Simple.
But don't worry ...
... some people cannot see any value in creationism or ID.
... it isn't completely without value, it can always serve as a bad example of how not to do science.
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 800 by Colbard, posted 12-09-2014 8:38 AM Colbard has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2125 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 807 of 2073 (744244)
12-09-2014 10:48 AM
Reply to: Message 800 by Colbard
12-09-2014 8:38 AM


Re: Carbon dating coins
Carbon dating is the holy grail of evolution. It's entire structure rests on that poor brick, and many other poor foundations like it have been buttressed to keep the confounded thing from looking unsupported.
Radiocarbon dating was invented close to a hundred years after evolution.
And it is but one of many dating techniques used in various sciences. And it is not used to establish the maximum age of the earth--just a minimum age. But that's no problem. All of the dating techniques disprove the young earth idea.
So why not introduce the topic of dating with a holed story? It's a perfect mockery in return for the instant rebuttals of anything that comes near this tottering mess called evolution.
Face it, you really didn't know any better than to try to peddle the story of radiocarbon dating a coin.
You could have come up with a far better creationist tale than that though. How about the natural gas from Mississippi that was misdated? Or the coal from Russia? Those are creationist favorites, and can be found all over the web and in their literature.
But then: Has radiocarbon dating been invalidated by unreasonable results?

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 800 by Colbard, posted 12-09-2014 8:38 AM Colbard has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 431 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 808 of 2073 (744254)
12-09-2014 12:07 PM
Reply to: Message 800 by Colbard
12-09-2014 8:38 AM


Re: Carbon dating coins
Colbards writes:
Carbon dating is the holy grail of evolution. It's entire structure rests on that poor brick, and many other poor foundations like it have been buttressed to keep the confounded thing from looking unsupported.
Well, the buttresses are pretty strong. Without radiometric dating, the theory of evolution wouldn't lose any of its strength.
Colbard writes:
So why not introduce the topic of dating with a holed story?
Because it makes you look like an idiot. (You may not be a duck but you certainly walk like one and quack like one.)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 800 by Colbard, posted 12-09-2014 8:38 AM Colbard has not replied

  
herebedragons
Member (Idle past 876 days)
Posts: 1517
From: Michigan
Joined: 11-22-2009


(4)
Message 809 of 2073 (744268)
12-09-2014 1:39 PM
Reply to: Message 802 by Colbard
12-09-2014 8:51 AM


Re: To troll or not to troll?
So now, if people don't want to accept responsibility for their own actions and feelings, anybody can be blamed for an inconvenient response and be called a troll and banned? Is that how it works?
Not sure where anyone mentioned banning. It is simply that you wondered why you were being called a troll and I explained to you the way I see it.
If you are so sensitive and offended at anything that might challenge your view on evolution, what are you doing here, responding to me in such a thread? It's like watching a movie you hate isn't it?
Not offended at all. Nothing in my response was an emotional reaction. There is just not that much at stake on an internet forum. And you certainly haven't said ANYTHING that challenges MY view on evolution, not even the slightest.
I cannot be blamed for trolling when you are the one compelled to do things which annoy you.
Actually, I usually just ignore members like you and don't post much in response because I know it will not be productive. If you actually presented an argument, I might weigh in, but all you are doing is strutting around. No thanks.
I just wanted you to know why people think you are trolling, and you proved my point.
HBD

Whoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca
"Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem.
Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 802 by Colbard, posted 12-09-2014 8:51 AM Colbard has not replied

  
herebedragons
Member (Idle past 876 days)
Posts: 1517
From: Michigan
Joined: 11-22-2009


(1)
Message 810 of 2073 (744269)
12-09-2014 1:42 PM
Reply to: Message 805 by Dr Adequate
12-09-2014 9:24 AM


Re: Carbon dating coins
Carbon dating is the holy grail of evolution. It's entire structure rests on that poor brick ...
Can anyone possibly be so ignorant as to believe this?
I thought the Crocoduck was the Holy Grail of evolution. Wish I could find one of those!
HBD

Whoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca
"Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem.
Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 805 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-09-2014 9:24 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
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