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Author Topic:   What Does Critical Thinking Mean To You?
Phat
Member
Posts: 18298
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 247 of 339 (744639)
12-13-2014 4:50 PM
Reply to: Message 246 by ringo
12-13-2014 10:50 AM


Re: Critical Thinking Remix
Is evidence the only prerequisite for belief?

Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo
It's easy to see the speck in somebody else's ideas - unless it's blocked by the beam in your own.~Ringo
If a savage stops believing in his wooden god, it does not mean that there is no God only that God is not wooden. (Leo Tolstoy)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 246 by ringo, posted 12-13-2014 10:50 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 248 by ringo, posted 12-14-2014 1:12 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18298
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 249 of 339 (744665)
12-14-2014 1:48 PM
Reply to: Message 248 by ringo
12-14-2014 1:12 PM


Re: Critical Thinking Remix
ringo writes:
Belief is not a valid reason for disregarding evidence.
In most cases, yes.

Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo
It's easy to see the speck in somebody else's ideas - unless it's blocked by the beam in your own.~Ringo
If a savage stops believing in his wooden god, it does not mean that there is no God only that God is not wooden. (Leo Tolstoy)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 248 by ringo, posted 12-14-2014 1:12 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 250 by ringo, posted 12-14-2014 1:52 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18298
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 252 of 339 (744671)
12-14-2014 2:01 PM
Reply to: Message 250 by ringo
12-14-2014 1:52 PM


Re: Critical Thinking Remix
ringo writes:
Give us an example of "no".
You are quite the critical one, aren't you. I am a living example of "no".

Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo
It's easy to see the speck in somebody else's ideas - unless it's blocked by the beam in your own.~Ringo
If a savage stops believing in his wooden god, it does not mean that there is no God only that God is not wooden. (Leo Tolstoy)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 250 by ringo, posted 12-14-2014 1:52 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 254 by ringo, posted 12-14-2014 2:10 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18298
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 253 of 339 (744672)
12-14-2014 2:02 PM
Reply to: Message 251 by Coyote
12-14-2014 1:57 PM


Re: Critical Thinking Remix
Coyote writes:
Belief overrules evidence when you really, really believe.
We have seen quite a few examples of this on these very threads.
There is no endless stream of "reallys" needed. Either you believe or you don't.

Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo
It's easy to see the speck in somebody else's ideas - unless it's blocked by the beam in your own.~Ringo
If a savage stops believing in his wooden god, it does not mean that there is no God only that God is not wooden. (Leo Tolstoy)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 251 by Coyote, posted 12-14-2014 1:57 PM Coyote has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18298
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 255 of 339 (744677)
12-14-2014 2:25 PM
Reply to: Message 254 by ringo
12-14-2014 2:10 PM


Re: Critical Thinking Remix

This message is a reply to:
 Message 254 by ringo, posted 12-14-2014 2:10 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 256 by ringo, posted 12-14-2014 2:40 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18298
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 257 of 339 (744680)
12-14-2014 3:17 PM
Reply to: Message 256 by ringo
12-14-2014 2:40 PM


Re: Critical Thinking Remix
ringo writes:
Evidence is evident, not just to one man but to anybody who looks at it objectively.
in matters of belief, my evidence is subjective. Objective evidence regarding belief is best left to stodgy,arrogant Cambridge Professors, in my opinion. Then again, I may just be a sore loser.

Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo
It's easy to see the speck in somebody else's ideas - unless it's blocked by the beam in your own.~Ringo
If a savage stops believing in his wooden god, it does not mean that there is no God only that God is not wooden. (Leo Tolstoy)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 256 by ringo, posted 12-14-2014 2:40 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 258 by Tangle, posted 12-14-2014 5:21 PM Phat has replied
 Message 271 by ringo, posted 12-15-2014 10:41 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18298
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 263 of 339 (744744)
12-15-2014 7:22 AM
Reply to: Message 258 by Tangle
12-14-2014 5:21 PM


Give It Ten Minutes
Tangle writes:
So put that fear aside for at least ten minutes - what could change your mind?
I already addressed this basic issue here.
Perhaps I do have a desperation and need to believe---precisely the one thing you lack. Were I to put aside this anxiety for "10 minutes" (as well as my belief itself) my mind would already have changed...for ten minutes at least.

Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo
It's easy to see the speck in somebody else's ideas - unless it's blocked by the beam in your own.~Ringo
If a savage stops believing in his wooden god, it does not mean that there is no God only that God is not wooden. (Leo Tolstoy)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 258 by Tangle, posted 12-14-2014 5:21 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 266 by Tangle, posted 12-15-2014 8:23 AM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18298
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 264 of 339 (744748)
12-15-2014 8:12 AM
Reply to: Message 260 by jar
12-14-2014 6:59 PM


Re: Critical Thinking Remix
jar writes:
There are lots of folk that believe that one or more of the Biblical Floods actually happened.
Did the Tornado actually happen in The Wizard Of Oz?

Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo
It's easy to see the speck in somebody else's ideas - unless it's blocked by the beam in your own.~Ringo
If a savage stops believing in his wooden god, it does not mean that there is no God only that God is not wooden. (Leo Tolstoy)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 260 by jar, posted 12-14-2014 6:59 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 265 by jar, posted 12-15-2014 8:22 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18298
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 267 of 339 (744751)
12-15-2014 8:39 AM
Reply to: Message 265 by jar
12-15-2014 8:22 AM


Re: Critical Thinking Remix
In the Bible Story, did the Flood actually happen?

Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo
It's easy to see the speck in somebody else's ideas - unless it's blocked by the beam in your own.~Ringo
If a savage stops believing in his wooden god, it does not mean that there is no God only that God is not wooden. (Leo Tolstoy)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 265 by jar, posted 12-15-2014 8:22 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 268 by jar, posted 12-15-2014 9:05 AM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18298
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 273 of 339 (744858)
12-16-2014 12:21 PM
Reply to: Message 270 by Straggler
12-15-2014 10:26 AM


Re: Critical Thinking Remix
Straggler,speaking to Jon writes:
So you believe that your beliefs (about God etc.) are "likely all wrong"...?
It appears that Jon states that he has certain beliefs, irrational though they may be, and that they are likely not the absolute correct actuality given that the actuality is likely greater than human capability of comprehension.
In other words, I believe X as I understand X yet the actual breadth and scope of X is likely beyond what I can understand...thus my answer(my belief) is incomplete at this time.

Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo
It's easy to see the speck in somebody else's ideas - unless it's blocked by the beam in your own.~Ringo
If a savage stops believing in his wooden god, it does not mean that there is no God only that God is not wooden. (Leo Tolstoy)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 270 by Straggler, posted 12-15-2014 10:26 AM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 274 by Straggler, posted 12-17-2014 6:04 AM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18298
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 276 of 339 (744960)
12-17-2014 10:47 AM
Reply to: Message 275 by jar
12-17-2014 8:43 AM


Re: Critical Thinking Remix
jar writes:
How is admitting that you can say with a very high degree of certainty that your beliefs are wrong a recipe for cognitive dissonance on steroids?
Isn't that why a reasonable person tests a map against reality and does not believe the bridge is there just because the map shows one?
There is a difference--at least in my mind--between being wrong and being incomplete.
Take the belief in GOD, for example. I have a high degree of reasonable belief that GOD exists. I could well be wrong, but since I believe it, (and most certainly because I took a stand on belief versus perpetual uncertainty) my educated guess is over 50% certain that GOD exists.
I have reasons. They are personal to me.
Perhaps it is irrational of me to assign a percentage to such a question, I dont know.
I am more likely leaning towards the idea that my perception, feeling, and logic is incomplete. As I am driving up the "road" the map shows a bridge, but I can only trust my senses,emotions, and feelings. Evidence is not needed because I have driven this road many times, the weather is nice thus there is no logical reason the bridge may be out. Would you not say that my absolute knowledge of whether the bridge is intact is incomplete, rather than "likely wrong"?

Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo
It's easy to see the speck in somebody else's ideas - unless it's blocked by the beam in your own.~Ringo
If a savage stops believing in his wooden god, it does not mean that there is no God only that God is not wooden. (Leo Tolstoy)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 275 by jar, posted 12-17-2014 8:43 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 277 by ringo, posted 12-17-2014 11:08 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 278 by jar, posted 12-17-2014 11:12 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 282 by Jon, posted 12-17-2014 12:20 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18298
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 301 of 339 (745058)
12-18-2014 3:12 PM
Reply to: Message 282 by Jon
12-17-2014 12:20 PM


Re: Critical Thinking Remix
Seems the bridge(between Minnesota & S.Dakota) is indeed there. Good thing I prayed before finding out the hard way.
Our arguments are often circular here at EvC. May as well sit back and enjoy the coffee rather than spilling it trying to prove a point.

Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo
It's easy to see the speck in somebody else's ideas - unless it's blocked by the beam in your own.~Ringo
If a savage stops believing in his wooden god, it does not mean that there is no God only that God is not wooden. (Leo Tolstoy)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 282 by Jon, posted 12-17-2014 12:20 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 305 by Jon, posted 12-18-2014 4:59 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18298
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 308 of 339 (745828)
12-28-2014 7:13 AM
Reply to: Message 306 by jar
12-18-2014 5:25 PM


Re: Critical Thinking Remix -- backup ... what?
I have said all along that what one believes about a God is almost certainly wrong.
I am saying that what we say about God or god is almost certainly wrong.
I went on to clarify that by pointing out that so far all the gods or Gods we can test have been shown to be wrong.
Your theory is only correct if God does not in some way interact with humanity. God is not merely some unknowable Being whom we "test" in regards to our reactions concerning said concept. God is alive.

Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo
It's easy to see the speck in somebody else's ideas - unless it's blocked by the beam in your own.~Ringo
If a savage stops believing in his wooden god, it does not mean that there is no God only that God is not wooden. (Leo Tolstoy)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 306 by jar, posted 12-18-2014 5:25 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 309 by jar, posted 12-28-2014 8:46 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 310 by ringo, posted 12-28-2014 1:40 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18298
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 311 of 339 (745900)
12-29-2014 7:48 AM
Reply to: Message 310 by ringo
12-28-2014 1:40 PM


Re: Critical Thinking Remix -- backup ... what?
Perhaps when He smites some of us it is Him using critical thinking on us. Perhaps natural selection is similar to random smiting.

Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo
It's easy to see the speck in somebody else's ideas - unless it's blocked by the beam in your own.~Ringo
If a savage stops believing in his wooden god, it does not mean that there is no God only that God is not wooden. (Leo Tolstoy)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 310 by ringo, posted 12-28-2014 1:40 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 312 by Theodoric, posted 12-29-2014 10:58 AM Phat has replied
 Message 313 by ringo, posted 12-29-2014 11:05 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18298
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 316 of 339 (745938)
12-30-2014 12:52 AM
Reply to: Message 312 by Theodoric
12-29-2014 10:58 AM


Re: Critical Thinking Remix -- backup ... what?
Theodoric writes:
I think reality is progressively slipping from your grasp.
The evidence would support your assertion.

Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo
It's easy to see the speck in somebody else's ideas - unless it's blocked by the beam in your own.~Ringo
If a savage stops believing in his wooden god, it does not mean that there is no God only that God is not wooden. (Leo Tolstoy)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 312 by Theodoric, posted 12-29-2014 10:58 AM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 317 by Theodoric, posted 12-30-2014 8:42 AM Phat has replied

  
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