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Author | Topic: Gun Control Again | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Theodoric Member Posts: 9197 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2 |
Oh I thought you were a Christian. Or do you selective follow the tenets of your religion?
Lets see your argument.Guns owners should not face regulations because some of them are bad. Moslems should be discriminated against, not just because some of them are bad, because they are all bad. Did I get that right?Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Lets see your argument. Guns owners should not face regulations because some of them are bad. Moslems should be discriminated against, not just because some of them are bad, because they are all bad. Of course you didn't get it right. When would you ever give a fair hearing to anything I said? Where did I say anything about restricting regulations on guns? And where did I say anything about "Moslems?" They can have all the rights they want as long as they don't support their murderous ideology. You know, like we would give rights to people who obey the laws but not to people who commit crimes or even people who PLOT to commit crimes as soon as they get the firepower for it, which is what Islam does. Can you read at all? All I said was that the vast majority of gun owners are responsible law-abiding citizens. That's ALL I said and you took off on your crackpot attempt to make something else of it. I was answering Ringo who said that the people who want guns are idiots. Which is a lie, which is why I answered it. Straight to granting Muslims rights, as if that had ANY connection whatever to the topic. I figured it was just a typical PC potshot, can't ever agree with anything I say, THE VAST MAJORITY OF AMERICAN GUN OWNERS ARE RESPONSBLE LAW-ABIDING CITIZENS; got to find some way to try to pin something foul on me, anything at all. So yeah, well I guess she wants gun owners to have rights, but didn't she say she doesn't want Muslims to have rights? See now there's a moral equivalence PC can use, that makes evil good and good evil according to the PC formula. It's a PC crime to differentiate between good and evil, we certainly can't rightly support gun rights for the responsible law-abiding citizens and not (what kind of rights is not specified) for those who hold a murderous ideology. Oh no, we can't even point out there is such a thing as a murderous ideology. Unless it's Christianity, of course, so far gone is the good for evil and evil for good transfer. You all want, rightly, to keep mentally unstable people away from guns, but are perfectly happy to let Islam build up its power so it can wipe us all out. May it come back and bite you in the butt SOON, so that if at all possible you might WAKE UP.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9197 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2 |
You do realize we can read what you posted earlier don't you?
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
But so what? You never read anything I say correctly. You certainly made a mess with this current subject.
Oh I get it, you don't care about what I just said, you are going to dig up something you THINK contradicts it. But of course it doesn't, it's just you on your neverending PC vendetta and I'll have to correct your stupid misreading as usual. It just never stops. Why not just agree: THE VAST MAJORITY OF AMERICAN GUN-OWNERS ARE RESPONSIBLE LAW-ABIDING CITIZENS? Cuz, gosh, that's TRUE, it just isn't PC. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9197 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2 |
No one is disputing that. Just not sure what that has to do with the argument for some reasonable gun laws.
But according to your own words you want to outlaw Islam, though the vast majority of the followers of Islam are law abiding citizens. Looking at it rationally, one might be able to conclude that the percentage of law abiding Moslems is higher than the percentage of law abiding gun owners.Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
You don't understand one thing about how Islam works, you are blind to it.
And I told you why I said what I said about law abiding gun owners but you just went on to find something to accuse me of.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9197 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2 |
I was pointing out the hypocrisy of your argument.
I know much more about Islam than you. I have read and studied the quran. I have debated with moslems. Islam is no more a religion of murder than christianity.Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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Adminnemooseus Administrator Posts: 3976 Joined: |
In this case I must agree the Faith (I think).
Going to close this topic down for a while if the topic focus doesn't return. AdminnemooseusOr something like that.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9197 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2 |
Was attempting to point out that her argument that
"The vast majority of gun owners are law abiding" is specious and hypocritical on her part. She took it as an opportunity to attack Islam. Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 2.1 |
Theodoric writes: I know much more about Islam than you. I have read and studied the quran. I have debated with moslems.Islam is no more a religion of murder than christianity. I would enjoy reading a debate between you and Faith on this question.He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Since this thread will be closed down if we continue in this vein I'm deprived of the opportunity to answer you, but I'm going to anyway. I already did but as usual you didn't get the point. There is no hypocrisy in denouncing an evil religion but supporting good gun owners, as I already said, pointing out that your PC opinions equate good things with evil things. I've made that point many times on the racism-homophobia thread but also just in the last few posts to you here. PC equates law enforcement with murder, legal punishment by death with murder, good gun owners with bad gun owners who murder people, good religion with evil religion and so on. PC is a pernicious evil ideology that is destroying civilization.
You think you understand Islam because you read all its stuff and debated Muslims. I wonder how you missed their overarching plan to take the world for Allah, create a worldwide caliphate or Islamic State in not just Syria but the world, which they consider to be their highest duty. You have to ignore all the ways they are actually doing this in parts of the world where they can. And how you manage to miss their official strategy of tolerating the infidel and infidel state so long as they don't have the power to overcome them, abiding by their laws as long as they have to, waiting for the time when they can break out and subjugate and kill for Allah. All this can be found in various public statements by various Muslim leaders over the last few decades. Or manage to miss their official strategy of lying to promote their idea of good, which is really evil. You think all cultures are essentially the same, no doubt, so you don't expect to be lied to about such things. May it bite you in the butt and remove some flesh. No hypocrisy, just your PC induced moral and intellectual failure. GDR wants a debate. No. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Percy Member Posts: 22492 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9
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If I were to rephrase your position but in general terms in my own words I'd note that it's inconsistent to render judgment on all of some groups but not all of others, and then point out that it's senseless to judge entire groups anyway. At least that's what I thought you were saying.
But if anyone was arguing that gun owners as a group are bad I guess I missed it. We don't want to regulate guns because gun owners are bad, because gun owners are not bad. We want to regulate guns for the same reason we regulate most things, for the greater good. Guns are dangerous to everyone in the vicinity, and regulating them reduces that danger. --Percy
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herebedragons Member (Idle past 884 days) Posts: 1517 From: Michigan Joined:
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good religion with evil religion Your argument might have a bit more teeth if you yourself didn't espouse such an evil religion. A God who hates most everyone on earth, who creates people to be evil and then punishes them for it, who causes natural disasters and terrorist attacks as judgement that indiscriminately kill both guilty and innocent, who will ultimately destroy everyone he doesn't like and set up his kingdom to rule the entire earth. Now we have a very plain view of exactly the kind of religion you practice... and its not that much different than Islam.
PC equates law enforcement with murder Putting a man in a choke hold to the point where he dies because he was selling loose cigarettes is "law enforcement?"
legal punishment by death with murder We all know what would happen if people like you had their way as far as the death penalty goes. You would have the majority of people on this forum (including me) put to death for blasphemy, you would have gays executed, etc, etc. Is this not what the Bible teaches you to do?
There is no hypocrisy in denouncing an evil religion but supporting good gun owners If you want someone to agree with you that most gun owners are good, honest citizens. Yes, I will agree. But there is a LOT of crazies out there, even a lot of them who on the surface appear to be honest, law-biding citizens. Some who are anxiously waiting and hoping for the day where they can legally blow someone away. I have meet people like that. But yes, most gun owners ARE good, honest citizens. That is not really the problem. Guns have gotten out of control in this country. Many, many innocent people are dying as a direct result of the accessibility of guns. I know, "Its not guns that kill people, its people who kill people." Its actually our love affair with violence that causes people to be killed. Guns are a reflection, a symptom of that love affair and it never ceases to amaze me that so many Christians, who are supposed to be about "love one another" and "bring hope to the lost and hurting" would be so adamantly opposed to gun control and who so defend police officers, who are charged to serve and protect, that use excessive force in the execution of their "enforcement of the law." This is what people see as hypocritical. Christians should be the first to stand up and protest when human beings are being killed needlessly. After all, we are all made in God's image. You however, are not hypocritical at all. You views on "politically correctness" reflect exactly the God the you believe in. What a shame HBDWhoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca "Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem. Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9197 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2 |
ut if anyone was arguing that gun owners as a group are bad I guess I missed it. We don't want to regulate guns because gun owners are bad, because gun owners are not bad. We want to regulate guns for the same reason we regulate most things, for the greater good. Guns are dangerous to everyone in the vicinity, and regulating them reduces that danger.
Yes agreed. No one has argued that all gun owners are bad. Faith is saying guns should not be regulated because the majority of gun owners are good people. The point i was making didn't even need to go to the next step that we regulate guns because guns, in and of themselves, are dangerous. I was simply pointing out the flaw of making decisions solely based on the group of people. As you say
If I were to rephrase your position but in general terms in my own words I'd note that it's inconsistent to render judgment on all of some groups but not all of others, and then point out that it's senseless to judge entire groups anyway. Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
I don't think so. As I've said before, it is not rational to think you can defend yourself with a gun. A gun is not a defensive weapon. The only way to win a gunfight is to shoot first. The vast majority of gun owners in America are responsible law-abiding citizens. To be responsible gun owners, people would have to understand the capability of their guns - and I don't think most of them do.
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