Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
4 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,817 Year: 3,074/9,624 Month: 919/1,588 Week: 102/223 Day: 0/13 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Fountains of the deep, new evidence
Astrophile
Member (Idle past 128 days)
Posts: 92
From: United Kingdom
Joined: 02-10-2014


(1)
Message 91 of 106 (744001)
12-07-2014 6:20 AM
Reply to: Message 79 by Colbard
12-05-2014 7:35 AM


This kind of settling with smaller items on the base is typical of a flood, where the water is moving while depositing. It is simple physics. If you have a pocket full of coins, the smaller coins end up down the bottom.
But this is completely wrong. The largest size of material that can be moved by flowing water is proportional to the sixth power of the speed; double the speed of the flow, and you multiply the size of the largest object that can be moved by 32. As the waters of a flood decelerate, first boulders and cobbles and pebbles settle out, and then finer sediments like gravel, sand, silt and clay. Did you actually try the experiment with a pocket-full of coins?
It is presumed that the smaller shells were older periods, and on the top we have the mammoths.
Again, this is simply wrong; young sedimentary rocks (Pliocene and Pleistocene) contain small mollusc shells, and the bones of the great dinosaurs are found in Mesozoic rocks, in the middle of the geological column and far below the mammoths. Anyway, if your argument were true, we should expect to find fossil birds and small mammals in the oldest rocks.
The sedimentary orders are not universal, sometimes they're upside down and inconsistent depending on the forces, but all point to the fact that the layers could not have been deposited over millions of years, neither interrupted and overturned in the same time.
There is hardly a place on the earth which does not reveal depositions, oceanic fossils, sedimentary layers etc. Everything is formed by flood water, wind, tectonic activities and natural erosion over a few thousand years.
I can well believe that you find science boring, as you said in another thread. If you had found it interesting, you would have gone to the trouble to check your facts (for example, by reading some text-books), and would not have written such inaccurate stuff as this. What puzzles me is why you think it's worth your while to argue about the age of the Earth, the deposition of sedimentary rocks, black holes, the big bang, etc. with people who have devoted their whole lives to science.
Edited by Astrophile, : Expansion of point in last paragraph.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by Colbard, posted 12-05-2014 7:35 AM Colbard has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by Colbard, posted 12-08-2014 8:42 AM Astrophile has replied
 Message 97 by Colbard, posted 12-08-2014 8:58 AM Astrophile has replied

  
Astrophile
Member (Idle past 128 days)
Posts: 92
From: United Kingdom
Joined: 02-10-2014


Message 105 of 106 (745583)
12-24-2014 2:37 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by Colbard
12-08-2014 8:42 AM


Colbard writes:
Astrophile writes:
What puzzles me is why you think it's worth your while to argue about the age of the Earth, the deposition of sedimentary rocks, black holes, the big bang, etc. with people who have devoted their whole lives to science.
Am I supposed to feel sorry for them?
What is the point of this reply? It doesn't answer the question implied by my Message 91; in fact, it appears to have no relation to that question. Still, in an attempt to answer your question, no, I don't expect you to feel sorry for people who have devoted their whole lives to science. Why should you feel sorry for them?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by Colbard, posted 12-08-2014 8:42 AM Colbard has not replied

  
Astrophile
Member (Idle past 128 days)
Posts: 92
From: United Kingdom
Joined: 02-10-2014


(1)
Message 106 of 106 (745592)
12-24-2014 3:36 PM
Reply to: Message 97 by Colbard
12-08-2014 8:58 AM


And the finer particles don't find their way down past and below the larger boulders and rocks?
I grant you that pebbles, sand, and silt deposited in the waning stages of a flood can filter down and fill up the gaps between the larger boulders and cobbles deposited by the faster flows at the peak of the flood, but the average particle size, and in particular the size of the largest particles, will decrease from bottom to top of the succession. Also, fine-grained sediments can't be deposited below the coarser particles, because when the speed of the flow is low enough for sand and silt to be deposited, it is much too slow to move the boulders and cobbles.
The flood did not produce one continuous layer, but hundreds of layers in most instances. Your evolutionary models show the big stuff on top, the little things at the bottom. That is a wished model, hardly the general case.
Your argument in Message 79 appears to be that a flood deposits small particles (e.g. small fossil shells) first (i.e. at the bottom of the succession) and large particles (e.g. the bones of mammoths, dinosaurs, whales and pliosaurs) last, at the top of the succession, and that geologists have mistaken this hydrologically sorted succession for a temporal succession. This is your argument, not the evolutionists' model.
In reply, I pointed out that there are rock formations that contain only fossil shells (of a wide range of sizes) that have been assigned to the youngest geological epochs (e.g. the Pliocene and Pleistocene) because they rest on top of rocks belonging to older systems; by your argument evolutionists should have assigned these shell-bearing rocks to the oldest systems. Now you say:
Your evolutionary models show the big stuff on top, the little things at the bottom. That is a wished model, hardly the general case.
But that is not what the evolutionary models show: geologists know perfectly well that there are large fossils (as well as small ones) in Paleozoic and Mesozoic rocks and small fossils (as well as large ones) in Cenozoic rocks. It was you who said that a flood would deposit small particles at the bottom and larger particles at the top, so it is your argument that is contradicted by the observed distribution of fossils.
We find shells mixed in with mammoths. No millions of years in between.
Well, yes, we now find barnacles, brachiopods and oysters living at the same time as elephants, but we don't find fossil mammoths mixed in with trilobites or ammonites. For that matter, we don't find fossil mammoths mixed in with dinosaurs or plesiosaurs, or fossil belemnites mixed in with fossil trilobites. The point is that the fossil shells of the Cenozoic were completely different from the fossil shells of the Paleozoic, and you can't treat them as though they were the same.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by Colbard, posted 12-08-2014 8:58 AM Colbard has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024