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Author Topic:   What Does Critical Thinking Mean To You?
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(2)
Message 246 of 339 (744599)
12-13-2014 10:50 AM
Reply to: Message 244 by Phat
12-13-2014 8:02 AM


Re: Critical Thinking Remix
Phat writes:
As a believer, I am aware, however, that evidence is not always available in an objective sense.
Unbelievers are aware of that too. The difference is that believers are often too critical of the evidence and not critical enough of their own conclusions.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 244 by Phat, posted 12-13-2014 8:02 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 247 by Phat, posted 12-13-2014 4:50 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 248 of 339 (744660)
12-14-2014 1:12 PM
Reply to: Message 247 by Phat
12-13-2014 4:50 PM


Re: Critical Thinking Remix
Phat writes:
Is evidence the only prerequisite for belief?
I'm not sure what you mean by that. Belief is appropriate when there is not sufficient evidence to form a conclusion. Critical thinking is used to decide if the evidence is sufficient.
Belief is not a valid reason for disregarding evidence.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 247 by Phat, posted 12-13-2014 4:50 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 249 by Phat, posted 12-14-2014 1:48 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 250 of 339 (744667)
12-14-2014 1:52 PM
Reply to: Message 249 by Phat
12-14-2014 1:48 PM


Re: Critical Thinking Remix
Phat writes:
ringo writes:
Belief is not a valid reason for disregarding evidence.
In most cases, yes.
Give us an example of "no".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 249 by Phat, posted 12-14-2014 1:48 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 251 by Coyote, posted 12-14-2014 1:57 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied
 Message 252 by Phat, posted 12-14-2014 2:01 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 254 of 339 (744674)
12-14-2014 2:10 PM
Reply to: Message 252 by Phat
12-14-2014 2:01 PM


Re: Critical Thinking Remix
Phat writes:
I am a living example of "no".
I said that belief is not a VALID reason for disregarding evidence.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 252 by Phat, posted 12-14-2014 2:01 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 255 by Phat, posted 12-14-2014 2:25 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 256 of 339 (744679)
12-14-2014 2:40 PM
Reply to: Message 255 by Phat
12-14-2014 2:25 PM


Re: Critical Thinking Remix
Phat writes:
To one man, evidence may be well grounded yet may not be justifiable,relevant, or meaningful.
Nope. That would be subjective opinion.
Evidence is evident, not just to one man but to anybody who looks at it objectively. Disregarding it in favour of [nothing] is not valid.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 255 by Phat, posted 12-14-2014 2:25 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 257 by Phat, posted 12-14-2014 3:17 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 271 of 339 (744766)
12-15-2014 10:41 AM
Reply to: Message 257 by Phat
12-14-2014 3:17 PM


Re: Critical Thinking Remix
Phat writes:
in matters of belief, my evidence is subjective. Objective evidence regarding belief is best left to stodgy,arrogant Cambridge Professors, in my opinion.
You're using some odd vocabulary there. Evidence is not objective or subjective. The way we look at evidence is objective or subjective.
But evidence is evident; you don't get to pick and choose your evidence.
There is no such thing as "evidence regarding belief". If you have evidence, you don't need belief.
Once again, disregarding evidence is not a valid position to take, period.
Phat writes:
Then again, I may just be a sore loser.
If you're disregarding evidence, the term is "willfully ignorant" or "intellectually dishonest".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 257 by Phat, posted 12-14-2014 3:17 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 277 of 339 (744964)
12-17-2014 11:08 AM
Reply to: Message 276 by Phat
12-17-2014 10:47 AM


Re: Critical Thinking Remix
Phat writes:
There is a difference--at least in my mind--between being wrong and being incomplete.
What you seem to be saying is that you would rather be wrong than incomplete. You "took a stand on belief versus perpetual uncertainty" as if taking any stand is better than none at all. To paraphrase what you sometimes say, "If you don't stand for a bad idea you're liable to fall for a good one."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 276 by Phat, posted 12-17-2014 10:47 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 281 of 339 (744971)
12-17-2014 12:16 PM
Reply to: Message 280 by Jon
12-17-2014 12:11 PM


Re: Critical Thinking Remix -- what is wrong with saying "I don't know" ???
Jon writes:
But what is wrong with believing anyway and admitting that your belief is irrational and likely wrong?
I believe the bridge is there but I acknowledge that my belief is likely wrong, so I don't try to cross it until I actually see it. How is that different from not believing the bridge is there until I see it?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 280 by Jon, posted 12-17-2014 12:11 PM Jon has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 286 by xongsmith, posted 12-17-2014 3:20 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 290 of 339 (745035)
12-18-2014 10:42 AM
Reply to: Message 286 by xongsmith
12-17-2014 3:20 PM


Re: Critical Thinking Remix -- what is wrong with saying "I don't know" ???
xongsmith writes:
If you start by NOT believing the bridge is there, you will probably plan a different route, perhaps considerably longer.
No, that would be disbelief. I have a lack of belief that the bridge is there. The alternate route probably also requires a bridge, and I have an equal lack of belief in that bridge.
What I do is when I get to where the bridge should be I make sure I can see it before I drive onto it. I don't "believe" it's there just because the map sez so.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 286 by xongsmith, posted 12-17-2014 3:20 PM xongsmith has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 294 by RAZD, posted 12-18-2014 11:49 AM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 310 of 339 (745851)
12-28-2014 1:40 PM
Reply to: Message 308 by Phat
12-28-2014 7:13 AM


Re: Critical Thinking Remix -- backup ... what?
Phat writes:
God is not merely some unknowable Being whom we "test" in regards to our reactions concerning said concept.
He is if we think critically about Him.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 308 by Phat, posted 12-28-2014 7:13 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 311 by Phat, posted 12-29-2014 7:48 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 313 of 339 (745919)
12-29-2014 11:05 AM
Reply to: Message 311 by Phat
12-29-2014 7:48 AM


Re: Critical Thinking Remix -- backup ... what?
Phat writes:
Perhaps when He smites some of us it is Him using critical thinking on us.
If God is omniscient, why would He need critical thinking?
Phat writes:
Perhaps natural selection is similar to random smiting.
I think most people here will agree that the smiting is pretty much random. True Christians™ seem to get smitten along with the rest of us. But of course that gives them a chance to play the martyr card.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 311 by Phat, posted 12-29-2014 7:48 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 314 by jar, posted 12-29-2014 11:15 AM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
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