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Author
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Topic: The Search for Moderate Islam
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9512 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 4.8
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Message 181 of 432 (746615)
01-08-2015 2:51 PM
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Reply to: Message 180 by Faith
01-08-2015 2:05 PM
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Ok Faith, I was only interested in establishing just how fanatically racist you are. Job done.
Je suis Charlie. Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed. Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 180 by Faith, posted 01-08-2015 2:05 PM | | Faith has replied |
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1433 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: 03-14-2004
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Message 182 of 432 (746616)
01-08-2015 3:20 PM
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Reply to: Message 178 by Faith
01-08-2015 1:47 PM
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“Improvised explosive device” set off near Colorado Springs NAACP office – The Denver Post
quote:
An improvised explosive device was detonated against the exterior wall of a building housing the Colorado Springs chapter of the NAACP on Tuesday, officials said. The explosion knocked items off the office walls but no one was injured. According to the the FBI, officials are seeking a "potential person of interest," described as a balding white male, about 40 years old. "He may be driving a 2000 or older model dirty, white pick-up truck with paneling, a dark colored bed liner, open tailgate, and a missing or covered license plate," the FBI said in a statement said.
So should we blame\investigate all white people, all white males, all balding white males, all balding white males driving white pickup trucks, all balding white males driving white pickup trucks with dark colored bed liners, all balding white males driving white pickup trucks with dark colored bed liners and open tailgates, or all balding white males driving white pickup trucks with dark colored bed liners with open tailgates and obscured license plates ... Should all people driving with missing or obscured license plates be investigated ... remember McVeigh was pulled over for missing plate and he was a bomber ... Are there moderate balding white males driving white pickup trucks? Inquiring minds want to know. Enjoy
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 178 by Faith, posted 01-08-2015 1:47 PM | | Faith has not replied |
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vimesey
Member (Idle past 101 days) Posts: 1398 From: Birmingham, England Joined: 09-21-2011
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Message 183 of 432 (746619)
01-08-2015 3:25 PM
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Reply to: Message 176 by Faith
01-08-2015 1:33 PM
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The problem is that Islam itself, its own "holy" books, is all for the taking of SOME lives, and jihad is on their books, the killing of nonMuslims for Allah is on their books. There are no doubt moderate Muslims but they are out of tune with their religion. They can't very well condemn an action that is prescribed in their own books and be trusted.
And in your holy book, God orders the stoning to death of some poor sod who picked up sticks on the Sabbath, along with any number of killings, massacres, even genocides. Moderate Christians explain away these rather nasty injunctions, and rightly so. Moderate Muslims also distinguish such nastiness as there is in their holy book, and preach love, tolerance and understanding. Not so different, from a genuinely objective perspective. Edited by vimesey, : Clarification
Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 176 by Faith, posted 01-08-2015 1:33 PM | | Faith has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 192 by Faith, posted 01-08-2015 10:08 PM | | vimesey has replied |
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1433 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: 03-14-2004
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Message 184 of 432 (746622)
01-08-2015 3:31 PM
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Reply to: Message 176 by Faith
01-08-2015 1:33 PM
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consistency is not your strong suit
The problem is that Islam itself, its own "holy" books, is all for the taking of SOME lives, and jihad is on their books, the killing of nonMuslims for Allah is on their books. There are no doubt moderate Muslims but they are out of tune with their religion. They can't very well condemn an action that is prescribed in their own books and be trusted. I'm curious Faith. Over on the [tid=746516] thread you say things like:
Message 431: The problem with this whole subject is that any way race can be shown to be a factor in such a profile or any social situation it is assumed to be racism and unjust. I can't make that assumption. If it is known that blacks and Hispanics are more often involved in criminal activities of certain kinds than, say, whites or Asians, then it is simply common sense, realistic judgment of the probabilities, to suspect them. I'd want to see the statistics compared to the rate of criminal activities in Chicago by those races before I concluded racism is involved. I'd also ask how many Asians there are in the city and what proportion of them are stopped under the same circumstances. ABE: I'd also bet that the kind of car that is being driven, its age and condition, may be a factor, and that the whites who do get stopped may also fit a profile of a type known to be more often involved in certain kinds of criminal activity. There are many kinds of profiling if you want to identify a likely suspect. And here you are profiling ALL muslims as being untrustworthy and driven to violence by their religion ... you are invoking a "super-predator" myth about muslims ... but there you adamantly deny that you cannot know a person is racist and that you cannot assume that their behavior will be racist even if they have unconscious racist beliefs. Don't you think muslims should not be pre-judged on what the religion says, even if it is an unconscious belief for some, but rather on behavior and actions when that occurs? Enjoy
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 176 by Faith, posted 01-08-2015 1:33 PM | | Faith has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 193 by Faith, posted 01-08-2015 10:13 PM | | RAZD has seen this message but not replied |
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Coyote
Member (Idle past 2134 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: 01-12-2008
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Message 185 of 432 (746629)
01-08-2015 5:31 PM
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Reply to: Message 181 by Tangle
01-08-2015 2:51 PM
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just how fanatically racist you are "Muslim" is not a race.
Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 181 by Tangle, posted 01-08-2015 2:51 PM | | Tangle has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 186 by Tangle, posted 01-08-2015 6:01 PM | | Coyote has not replied |
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9512 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 4.8
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Message 186 of 432 (746635)
01-08-2015 6:01 PM
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Reply to: Message 185 by Coyote
01-08-2015 5:31 PM
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Coyote writes: "Muslim" is not a race. You are totally correct, thank you. How quickly we (I) jump to these phrases even if we (I) are actually sensitised not to do so. I need to think about what that actually means. My first thought is that the word I need - religionist - does not exist afaik. I would be grateful for help with this.
Je suis Charlie. Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed. Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 185 by Coyote, posted 01-08-2015 5:31 PM | | Coyote has not replied |
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vimesey
Member (Idle past 101 days) Posts: 1398 From: Birmingham, England Joined: 09-21-2011
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Message 187 of 432 (746637)
01-08-2015 6:20 PM
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Reply to: Message 186 by Tangle
01-08-2015 6:01 PM
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You're ok Tangle - the UN is prepared to adopt "racial discrimination" as a portmanteau term, so as to include discrimination based on religion too: International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination - Wikipedia So no need to spend too long in that particular semantic rabbit hole.
Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 186 by Tangle, posted 01-08-2015 6:01 PM | | Tangle has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 195 by Faith, posted 01-08-2015 10:18 PM | | vimesey has not replied |
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subbie
Member (Idle past 1283 days) Posts: 3509 Joined: 02-26-2006
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Message 188 of 432 (746642)
01-08-2015 8:15 PM
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Reply to: Message 186 by Tangle
01-08-2015 6:01 PM
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"Bigotry" covers a multitude of sins. Or "prejudice."
Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate Howling about evidence is a conversation stopper, and it never stops to think if the claim could possibly be true -- foreveryoung
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 186 by Tangle, posted 01-08-2015 6:01 PM | | Tangle has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 189 of 432 (746645)
01-08-2015 8:50 PM
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Where is the threat?
What we need to understand as citizens of the United States of America is that even radical Islam is no where near as great a threat to US lives, wealth and freedom as is the US Congress, Executive branch and of course the SCOTUS. 9-11 was a tragedy, almost 3000 US lives lost but our government's response to the incident resulted in over 50,000 US casualties so far. The total number of non-US casualties from the US response to 9-11 is well into the hundreds of thousands of individuals. Yes, the US is threatened but mostly by us, by how we react, by our ignorance and lack of critical thinking skills. Edited by jar, : appalin spallin Edited by jar, : or ---> our
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Coyote
Member (Idle past 2134 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: 01-12-2008
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Message 190 of 432 (746647)
01-08-2015 9:47 PM
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2,000 Feared Dead in Boko Haram Attack More than 2,000 people are feared dead after Boko Haram destroyed 10 to 20 communities in Nigeria’s rural northeast, according to a senator from the region. These towns are just gone, burned down, said Ahmed Zanna. The whole area is covered in bodies. The radical Islamic group razed the town of Baga along with several others over the past five days. The 2,000 are unofficially unaccounted for. More
Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: 10-06-2001
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Message 191 of 432 (746648)
01-08-2015 10:04 PM
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Reply to: Message 181 by Tangle
01-08-2015 2:51 PM
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By the way, "Muslim" is not a race. abe: Never mind, I just saw that Coyote already said this. /abe Besides being "fanatically" aware of the dangers of Islam, I'm also anti-Marxist, anti-Satan, anti-PC etc. Don't forget to put those on your list of my sins. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 181 by Tangle, posted 01-08-2015 2:51 PM | | Tangle has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 199 by Tangle, posted 01-09-2015 2:51 AM | | Faith has replied |
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Faith
Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: 10-06-2001
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Message 192 of 432 (746649)
01-08-2015 10:08 PM
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Reply to: Message 183 by vimesey
01-08-2015 3:25 PM
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Islam orders all its members to perform jihad, which is far from the same thing as the Bible's reporting on past events. The Bible tells Christians to love our neighbor. Moderate Muslims have to contradict their "holy" books to preach anything but jihad against "infidels." You people really cannot think at all. I wonder if and when you'll ever wake up. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 183 by vimesey, posted 01-08-2015 3:25 PM | | vimesey has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 198 by vimesey, posted 01-09-2015 2:29 AM | | Faith has replied |
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Faith
Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: 10-06-2001
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Message 193 of 432 (746650)
01-08-2015 10:13 PM
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Reply to: Message 184 by RAZD
01-08-2015 3:31 PM
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Re: consistency is not your strong suit
I'm not prejudging Muslims, who may have any degree of misunderstanding of their own religion, but I am judging their religion itself, which, if they decide to learn it and follow it, wants all of us converted or dead. How you can compare this with what I said about race is too boggling to fathom. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 184 by RAZD, posted 01-08-2015 3:31 PM | | RAZD has seen this message but not replied |
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Coyote
Member (Idle past 2134 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: 01-12-2008
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Message 194 of 432 (746651)
01-08-2015 10:15 PM
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Militants planning mass casualty attacks against West Militants planning mass casualty attacks against West London (AFP) - The head of Britain's domestic spy agency MI5 warned on Thursday that militant Islamists in Syria were planning "mass casualty attacks" in the West and that intelligence services may be powerless to stop them. "We know... that a group of core al-Qaeda terrorists in Syria is planning mass casualty attacks against the West," Andrew Parker told journalists in London a day after an Islamist attack in Paris claimed 12 lives. "Although we and our partners try our utmost, we know that we cannot hope to stop everything," he added. Parker said that fighters returning to the West from the civil war in Syria were in danger of bringing with them a "twisted ideology" that could lead them to carry out attacks on famous landmarks at home. Although Islamic State (IS) presented the most obvious threat, fighters aligned with the core of al-Qaeda were also a danger. "We still face more complex and ambitious plots that follow the now sadly well-established approach of al-Qaeda and its imitators -- attempts to cause large-scale loss of life, often by attacking transport systems or iconic targets," he said. More
Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
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Faith
Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: 10-06-2001
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Message 195 of 432 (746652)
01-08-2015 10:18 PM
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Reply to: Message 187 by vimesey
01-08-2015 6:20 PM
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How delightful, now we can't "discriminate" against a murderous cult, and you people think this is right and just. I wonder if any of those who subscribe to such pitiable "logic" will ever wake up. abe: I don't think you will ever, really. I think they are going to be allowed to commit their murder and mayhem, probably launch an all-out attack on Jews for starters, which has been going on in France for some time, while anti-Semitism has been growing wherever Muslims have sufficient numbers to have an impact, along with the mass murders of Christians and other "infidels" that have also been going on for some time in Africa and elsewhere, and you'll all continue to rationalize it away until they've killed you too. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 187 by vimesey, posted 01-08-2015 6:20 PM | | vimesey has not replied |
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