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Author | Topic: Let's face it... | |||||||||||||||||||||||
joz Inactive Member |
quote: Or if everyone got tested and practiced safe sex stds would die out quickly as well.... Are you trying to argue that a model for societies behavior should be morally judged on the basis of its ability to combat STDs?
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redstang281 Inactive Member |
quote: Some std's can not be prevented. Ghoneria, crabs... etc. I'm not saying a model for society should be judged on it's basis of combating std's, I'm saying that if we listened to the bible we wouldn't have to fight std's as much. But I will go as far as to claim that this is one example of how if society was based on God's law that it would be perfect. [This message has been edited by redstang281, 12-12-2001]
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joz Inactive Member |
quote: That's entirely subjective pal Im sure that Im not the only one who would not accept a society where there was no premarital sex as perfect....
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Percy Member Posts: 22480 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
If man is incapable of refraining from sin, doesn't this put sinning in the same category as breathing? Why should we be punished for something that's just as natural as breathing?
You make many specific claims about God, but as soon as an inconsistency or unfairness is pointed out you seek refuge in the great unfathomable mystery of God. The latter position makes much more sense than the former. For all you know God is a rationalist and religion is his test to see who goes to hell. --Percy
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mark24 Member (Idle past 5217 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: |
"I'm not saying a model for society should be judged on it's basis of combating std's, I'm saying that if we listened to the bible we wouldn't have to fight std's as much. But I will go as far as to claim that this is one example of how if society was based on God's law that it would be perfect."
Mark24s law says wear a condom & shag as much as you like, do what you like as long as you don't hurt anyone/thing. & I don't blame you for someone elses sins, you are judged by your own actions. I'm not even insecure enough to require you all to kneel & worship me! Do I have the beginnings of a new religion here or what? ------------------Occam's razor is not for shaving with.
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mark24 Member (Idle past 5217 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: |
How do I quote please?
------------------Occam's razor is not for shaving with.
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mark24 Member (Idle past 5217 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: |
"For a man to deny me life because I am just like him, that is not fair. For God to deny me life because I am not like him, that is fair. Because of course we are not like God.
But in order to judge someone of something you must yourself lack that which you judge them on. So therefor if God gives us the death penalty for what we are, then yes that is fair. But how man A say man B is guilty of death simply for being a man, when man A is a man as well? You see the judgement of man would be hypocritical, but the judgement of God would not. " Whaaaaaaat? Because ; 1/ You imply all men are alike & can't judge each other, it would seem courts of law are unfair by merely judging others. You want to live in a world with no courts? Its OK then for me to kill the man next door because hes dark skinned & a Hindu, & not like me? 2/ Who said a man is denying you life BECAUSE you are like him? A man would deny you life because you (not actually) are a murderer, & he isn't. Therefore the judge lacks the accused "murderer" status. Just because they are human doesn't mean they are alike. That would be reserved for identical twins. As soon as you exercise free will, you have "differed" from others, by definition. This is what the rest of the world describes as an "individual". Nevertheless, he's human & you would seem to argue that mans fallibilty & ability to murder is human. Therefore he IS sentenced to death because he's human. Yet the judge, who hasn't murdered, is not guilty of murder & can't be judged of that crime, DESPITE being human. You seem to be attributing all the crimes man will ever commit, to all men. Just because I can murder someone doesn't mean I will. It means I've exercised the free will God gave me to not murder someone. Someone that did murder, can be judged accordingly by the appropriate authorities. It is NOT FAIR FOR BABIES THAT HAVE COMMITED NO CRIME BY DINT OF THEIR OWN FREE WILL TO HAVE THEIR LIVES SNUFFED OUT. Consider a child that is born "perfect" compared to one that is suffering terribly & has hours to live? Both guilty of being human, yet God makes one suffer & one not. ANY way you put it, this is a dictionary definition of unfairness. Ergo, God is unfair. Whats the point of free will if you're going to be judged GUILTY anyhow. ------------------Occam's razor is not for shaving with.
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redstang281 Inactive Member |
quote: Perfect was probably the wrong word, lack of suffering or pain maybe a better definition.
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redstang281 Inactive Member |
quote: There's less risky sex, but no such thing as safe sex.
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redstang281 Inactive Member |
[b] [QUOTE]
Whaaaaaaat? Because ;
1/ You imply all men are alike & can't judge each other, it would seem courts of law are unfair by merely judging others. You want to live in a world with no courts?[/b][/QUOTE] No man can make a global judgement on mankind like God can. In God's eye's we are all the same and all guilty of at least some kind of sin in one way shape or form. The only different between one man and another is whether or not he accepts Jesus. Lets say the nature of man is he will always make mistakes and always sin. Lets it also be known that my view on whether or not a judgement is fair is based on whether or not it is hypocritical. So therefor man can not judge another man soley or only on the fact that he is a man. We are all mankind. That would be hypocritical. If man A judges man B on an action that man A didn't performan but man B did, than that is not hypocritical. If God judges mankind on any mistake or sin it is never hypocritical because God can not sin or make a mistake.
[b] [QUOTE]
Its OK then for me to kill the man next door because hes dark skinned & a Hindu, & not like me?[/b][/QUOTE] God says he is like you because he is man, and you are man. So no it's not ok.
[b] [QUOTE]
You seem to be attributing all the crimes man will ever commit, to all men. Just because I can murder someone doesn't mean I will. It means I've exercised the free will God gave me to not murder someone. Someone that did murder, can be judged accordingly by the appropriate authorities. It is NOT FAIR FOR BABIES THAT HAVE COMMITED NO CRIME BY DINT OF THEIR OWN FREE WILL TO HAVE THEIR LIVES SNUFFED OUT.[/b][/QUOTE] Mankind values different crimes differently. God does not. Any law of God's that you break is on the same level as any other. It all shows disobediance to God.
[b] [QUOTE]
Consider a child that is born "perfect" compared to one that is suffering terribly & has hours to live? Both guilty of being human, yet God makes one suffer & one not. ANY way you put it, this is a dictionary definition of unfairness.[/b][/QUOTE] I can not pretend to know the intentions of God, but I'm certain that even though he doesn't control us he knows what will happen in the future. Maybe the child who dies would be one who would not accept him anyways. But regardless I believe the concept of the word fair extents beyond our comprehension. But by our definition of the word fair, we are also not fair to God. If you truely want a Christian answer to why you think God is not fair then go to any searh engine and type that exactly in. Here is a link to one example http://www.fcfonline.org/ARTICLES/why_god_is_not_fair.htm it is explaned by a smarter man than I.
[b] [QUOTE]
Ergo, God is unfair.Whats the point of free will if you're going to be judged GUILTY anyhow. [/b][/QUOTE] Man can't judge God because he doesn't understand God. The point of free will is so we can accept that we are guilty (among other things.) Here is a parable I think is very good. "Noted author and lecturer Josh McDowell provided a good analogy demonstrating God's just, righteous nature combined with his mercy and grace: An incident that took place several years ago in California illuminates what Jesus did on the cross in order to solve the problem God had with dealing with the sin of humanity. A young woman was picked up for speeding. She was ticketed and taken before the judge. The judge read off the citation and said "Guilty or not guilty?". The woman replied, "Guilty". The judge brought down the gavel and fined her $100 or ten days. Then an amazing thing took place. The judge stood up, took off his robe,walked down around in front, took out his billfold, and paid the fine. What's the explanation of this? The judge was her father. He loved his daughter, yet he was a just judge. His daughter had broken the law and he couldn't simply say to her "Because I love you so much, I forgive you. You may leave". If he had done that, he wouldn't have been a righteous judge. He wouldn't have upheld the law. But he loved his daughter so much that he was willing to take off his judicial robe and come down in front and represent her as her father and pay the fine1. In light of the attributes of God we know to be true in our hearts, such as His holiness, righteousness, compassion, and mercy, Christianity is the only religion that makes sense."
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Percy Member Posts: 22480 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Whenever you post a message, next to the text box you'll see a link called UBB Code is On. If you click on this link it will display a page explaining how to use the UBB codes, including for quoting.
The simplest way to quote is just click on "Reply Quote", and it will bring up a text box with the message you're replying to already quoted. You can then edit out unnecessary portions. --Percy
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redstang281 Inactive Member |
Was everyone asking me those questions to try and disprove God to me, or to try and better understand the Christian concept of God?
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joz Inactive Member |
quote: Will you please try to understand I am not trying to disprove God I was merely pointing out the logical inconsistency in a loving God creating STDs which afflict not only those who indulge in promiscuous behavior... I was reading an article on the BBC news page today apparently 25% of pregnant women in South Africa are HIV positive and 30% of these will have children who contract HIV in utero....Nice one Redstangs God......
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redstang281 Inactive Member |
quote: Just because we are being punished doesn't mean God doesn't love us. That's all I'm trying to say.
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joz Inactive Member |
quote: The other point I have been trying to make is that the whole concept of free will is inadmissible if God punishes people before they use that free will to choose to sin. In effect predetermining that they will sin before they make their free will choice not to....
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