Summations Only

Hebrews 11 can not confirm anything about Genesis 22. That is just another example of after the fact made up fake prophecy.It is an example of the commentators trying to shoehorn Jesus into Judaic Scripture and all the evidence is that it failed then and still fails today.There are no prophecies about Jesus in the Old Testament, only totally dishonest after the fact attempts that fool no one except those who are willfully ignorant and accustomed to lying to themselves.

You aren't making one iota of sense and you haven't deserved to be answered for all your miserably misbegotten posts on this subject. For pete's sake, It was not GOD "who felt obligated to perform" the sacrifice, it was Jepthah. Jepthah made the vow, he felt obligated to perform it.And what I said in what you quote from me is that it would be sin to sacrifice a human being so that Jepthah was not actually obligated anyway, according to some of the commentators, it was his own overzealousness that made him feel he was. And one commentator thinks he couldn't possibly have done it because he would have to have known that God forbids it, and suggests that he might have performed an alternative, of sending the daughter to serve in the tabernacle instead, where she would have been a virgin among older women.The point of the story, by the way, is to illustrate the reasons why we are warned against making rash vows.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Orthodox Protestant understanding reads the Old Testament from the revelations of the New Testament, but the Jews were expecting the Messiah before the NT was written, because they knew the OT prophesies Him. It is full of prophecies of the Messiah from Genesis to Malachi. And Jesus Himself says the OT is all about Him.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

What I wrote in Message 1502 remains a very good sketch of how the incident of Abraham's going to sacrifice Isaac is prophetic in itself of the sacrifice of Christ almost 2000 years later. The responses to it are nothing but confused nonsense that muddies up the simple parallel, ridiculous objections. The evidence is in the post, it describes facts that are in the Genesis 22 account and shows how they relate to the sacrifice of Christ. This prophetic connection is taught by all good Bible teachers.

No one questions that there are lots of folk that believe such nonsense or that the authors of the New Testament tales often put words in Jesus' mouth, but that has nothing to do with whether or not such assertions can be supported.And yes, the Old Testament has lots of messianic prophecies, just Jesus does not fill any of those requirements.Jesus at best might be considered another failed Jewish Messiah except that he did not even fulfill those minimal standards.

He Himself claims that He is the subject of all the OT messianic prophecies. Some day you will answer to Him for your insults.

Rather than threaten, why don't we stick to what the bible says.
Let's avoid the imaginary stuff, there is lots it actually says that is contradictory.
So okay, what about the incest?
We can agree it condones that at least.

Nonsense. The simply human authors of the stories write dialog for the Jesus character's lines in the stories.I have no problem answering for anything I say and no respect for any so called god that is so small and insignificant as to get insulted by what I say. That idea is just too laughable. Edited by jar, : an ---> and

Can you show actual writings by him that say this? Or some first person contemporary sources that quote him saying this.
Or do you just have tradition?

Here's where Jesus Himself teaches that He is prophesied in the scriptures. The second is a direct quote by John, "a first person contemporary source." You will not find better testimony of the thoughts of any other ancient figure than this: And here's another reference to a disciple teaching from the OT scriptures that Jesus is the Christ: And of course the OT is all they had, you know. It was always from the OT that they taught that Jesus was the fulfillment of the messianic prophecies.

Just saying no would have been much easier

God never approved of human sacrifice, ever. It was practiced by heathen nations in anticipation of the one-and-only sacrifice of the Messiah, which was generally known to all peoples from the promise to Adam and Eve, and in fact many of the heathen religions were invented as a supposed answer to that prophecy. That is why there are themes of death and resurrection in so many of them, but the real thing didn't come along until Jesus Christ. God NEVER approved of human sacrifice and that is one of the messages of the Genesis 22 incident. NO sacrifice could ever really atone for sin, anyway, all the animal sacrifices were required as a foreshadowing of Christ, to keep the costliness of sin always in the minds of the people.Your example of Jepthah is just a case of your misreading. You think because he had the Holy Spirit for dealing with the Ammonites that he would have known who would come out of his house, but there is nothing in scripture to say the Holy Spirit grants omniscience, that is your own made-up notion. The Holy Spirit is given for specific purposes. Jephthah made a terrible mistake with his rash vow.You brought up incest. Adam and Eve's children could only marry each other but at that point there was no genetic deterioration so it wasn't a problem, as it was later on as the effects of death due to the Fall took their toll, and especially after the massive death due to the Flood. So that can't even really be called incest.Incest became a problem genetically much later, after the Flood, and it's always seemed most likely to me that the prohibition is to prevent the proliferation of deformities in the population due to genetic disease. It is only in recent times that we know that this is a danger, but it has to have been God's reason then as well even if the people didn't understand the reason for it. Or perhaps they did surmise it if they saw the results of incestuous unions.In Abraham's time there were still people living hundreds of years, showing genetic strength even that late in history, but it rapidly deteriorates after that, and that is the most likely reason for the prohibition that came through Moses.There was no change of mind on God's part, there was a change in circumstances that God dealt with as they came up.And it was Lot's daughters who got themselves pregnant, that wasn't Lot's fault. And again, this occurred during the time of Abraham, when there was still quite a bit of genetic strength left.And do keep in mind that God often overlooks sin. If He didn't the whole human race would likely not have gone on existing after the Fall, or certainly after the Flood.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

But no would be a lie. Jesus clearly taught that He is the subject of the OT.

However if you actually look at the claims not even one single claim of Jesus being mentioned or referred to in the Old Testament can be supported. They are all simply not true.AbE: To save time and since this has been covered so many times before, Are any of these prophecies fulfilled by Jesus? is a thread looking at the most common prophetic claims regarding Jesus and each one is soundly debunked.If there are others we can look at them individually Faith.Edited by jar, : see AbE:Edited by jar, : may ---> manyEdited by jar, : fix sub-title

But you have nothing to show who was the author of John, or when it was written.If it was a John, John who?