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Author | Topic: Is the Bible the inerrant word of God? Or is it the words of men? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
And yet the story is pretty clear that he did.
Jepthah could not possibly have promised the God of Israel a human sacrifice, since God condemns human sacrifice, unless he was completely out of his mind.
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Faith writes: Jepthah could not possibly have promised the God of Israel a human sacrifice, since God condemns human sacrifice, unless he was completely out of his mind. But what does the Bible actually say Faith? I even posted the relevant passages in the story since it did not seem that you had read the Bible. The story not only shows that Jephthah not only promised a human sacrifice but that his daughter understood and agreed that he had done so and that he DID BBQ the girl. Shall I post the passage yet again? Why is it that Biblical Christians seem unable to believe what the Bible actually says?Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Golffly Member (Idle past 3081 days) Posts: 287 Joined: |
Sorry faith. I was sure you did. I can't look back at present (no time), but I changed it.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Thank you.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
GOD's only begotten Son. Whoever begets you passes on their own characteristics. Thus Jesus, being God's begotten Son, has the attributes of God as well as humanity.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Golffly Member (Idle past 3081 days) Posts: 287 Joined: |
Faith writes: But of course if you won't even take what is written in the Bible as any kind of authority whatever, even that it simply was written as it was written, we have no grounds for having any kind of discussion at all. jar writes: But what does the Bible actually say Faith? I even posted the relevant passages in the story since it did not seem that you had read the Bible. The story not only shows that Jephthah not only promised a human sacrifice but that his daughter understood and agreed that he had done so and that he DID BBQ the girl. Edited by Golffly, : No reason given.
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Faith writes: GOD's only begotten Son. Whoever begets you passes on their own characteristics. Thus Jesus, being God's begotten Son, has the attributes of God as well as humanity. But there is nothing in the Bible that says or even implies that and ALL the evidence is that that is simply not true. While my father hand one of my brothers had lots of hair two of my brothers were going bald before they were thirty. Now I will point out that when you breed a horse and a donkey you do get a mule but a mule does not have all the characteristics of a horse and a donkey; it's a mule, something that is neither horse nor donkey.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Percy Member Posts: 22392 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
Faith writes: GOD's only begotten Son. Whoever begets you passes on their own characteristics. Thus Jesus, being God's begotten Son, has the attributes of God as well as humanity. It's your mythology, I guess you can make up whatever you like. So Jesus existed before he was begotten? And Jesus and Isaac were both only sons who had brothers? --Percy
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
KJV Search Results for "only" AND "begotten"
Philippians 2:6-8:Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. He also fulfilled the OT prophecies of the Messiah that refer to Him as God, in Jeremiah, as "God our righteousness" and in Isaiah as "The mighty God, everlasting Father..."
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
It seems that what is actually written in that Bible story somehow got overlooked and so perhaps reposting the actual text might be worthwhile.
quote: It does not matter what Jepthah thought would come out of the door, it was his daughter that came out of his door and he did kill her as he had vowed to do and burned her as a sacrifice to God and there is nothing in the story that says or implies that the God character found the offering abhorrent.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8513 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
This is a bit late, I know, but if a clarification could be made please.
The passages I have read in Judges 11, all in English, King James and a few others, have Jephthah promising god that "whatsoever cometh forth of the doors of my house to meet me ... " and not whosoever ... Unless someone can show that the Aramaic/Greek/Hebrew whatever original indicates otherwise I think I'll go with Faith on this one. It would appear from the English that Jephthah was not promising a human sacrifice as some here insist, but just an unspecified sacrifice. Can anyone show that it was or was not common/uncommon in them days for one's favorite dog or lamb or gerbil or elephant to be first out the door to greet the returning master? Does it even matter? The whole point of the story is that a promise was made to god and one did not welsh on god regardless of the cost. The disturbing thing is that the girl was roasted and no one, especially not this god, did a damn thing to stop it. And to think that 3 of this world's major religions are based on the love of this crap. Sick.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Ya know, Percy, if you'd suspend your bias for a short time and just read the points I made in Message 1593 you might at least know that what is actually written there does indeed quite amazingly parallel what is said of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. The number of elements in the story that also describe Christ is beyond probability and beyond anybody's ability to tamper with them in the future. And how could anyone seriously think that somehow someone engineered Jesus' sacrifice to imitate the story of Abraham and Isaac anyway? How smart do you think the apostles were, and how well able to get everyone to say the same thing? The suppositions of the debunkers are an amazing exercise in fantasy. They invented Herod and Pilate and the Centurion at the foot of the cross, they invented the empty tomb, what else do you think these omniscient geniuses might have invented to make it all work out to seem to be fulfilled prophecy? And there are lots of other prophetic types and statements they'd also had to make Jesus' death conform to.
Yes of course Jesus existed before He was begotten as a man, He was with God in eternity before that event when He was made incarnate as a human being in the womb of Mary. I guess you just aren't very familiar with how God gave Isaac to Abraham, but it does make quite a good parallel with the gift of Christ to us, as good a parallel as you're going to get from a merely human birth.
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Faith writes: Philippians 2:6-8:Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. But again, that is simply marketing Faith and says nothing about Jesus having the attributes of God. To claim a god allowed himself to get killed just makes the whole thing a farce and con game.
Faith writes: He also fulfilled the OT prophecies of the Messiah that refer to Him as God, in Jeremiah, as "God our righteousness" and in Isaiah as "The mighty God, everlasting Father..."
You keep claiming that there are Old Testament prophecies of Jesus and if you really know of any please bring the Chapter and verse over to Are any of these prophecies fulfilled by Jesus? and if it is not one that has already been shown to be false we can test it.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Thank you for the first half of your post.
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
AZPaul3 writes: Does it even matter? The whole point of the story is that a promise was made to god and one did not welsh on god regardless of the cost. The disturbing thing is that the girl was roasted and no one, especially not this god, did a damn thing to stop it. And to think that 3 of this world's major religions are based on the love of this crap. Sick. As I have pointed out several times in this thread it doesn't matter what Jephthah thought would be the first thing to come out his door (although since it is a door to a house expecting a person instead of an ass is not unreasonable); the story says Jephthah made a vow, daughter accepted that it was a valid vow, the girl did get BBQ'd and there is nothing to show that the God character found the offering abhorrent. And what is sick, I agree, are those people who consider such behavior as justified or claim a God that would allow such crap was good. Christian education is often every big as piss poor in the US (I exclude other areas since I am a US citizen and embarrassed that other US citizens can buy into such bullshit) as US history education.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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