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Author | Topic: The Search for Moderate Islam | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jon Inactive Member |
Aside from the body count, what is the difference, I wonder. The body count.Love your enemies!
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1427 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
... If a Christian blows up an abortion clinic he also a terrorist. But often ignored Such as Forbidden Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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Jon Inactive Member |
Of course this thread isn't meant for making comparisons. Since the men in question were not Muslim, the whole thing is irrelevant.
Love your enemies!
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1427 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Predictable Faith
I hadn't heard it before, no, I surmised it from your presentation, but now I've listened up to about the 18 mark and find this guy Greenwald to be such a disgusting PC propagandist I don't know if I can stand listening to any more. ... No Faith it is not PC so you can't use that excuse - which you couldn't even if true. What makes it difficult for you to follow is the cognitive dissonance of having your personal beliefs challenged by facts. It is facts and a discussion of the reality posed by violent activity around the world, whether by lone wolf individuals, covert groups (which has to include CIA operations in various countries as well as outfits like Al Queda) or by nations (Israeli bombing of Palestine civilians, US drone attacks, Russian troops in Ukraine etc). What makes the actions of these people's action terrorism ...
quote: And then there are people like this:
quote: iirc Timothy McVeigh was associated with them ... and the recent failed bomb outside an NAACP building in Colorado may have been involved. If you are truly worried about terrorist attack in the US killing Americans, then you are more likely to see it occur from people like this.
... All you guys who think you want evidence evidence evidence really don't mind a whole lot if somebody who shares your point of view comes on making wild accusations without evidence, such as this guy is doing, basically accusing all the people who are called terrorism experts of lying to please the government, and the government of treating them as experts because they like their point of view. Blech. The evidence is that there is a lack of certification as an "expert" in terrorism. There is no system that compares claims made by pundits on tv with actual facts. The evidence is that when such comparison is made, the claims made by self-proclaimed experts are largely incorrect. You don't want to believe that (cognitive dissonance), so you ignore the evidence.
What's the point of all this dithering over the definition of "terrorism" anyway? I'll tell you the point: it's to let Muslims off the hook and find a way to blame the US instead -- or Jews or Christians or whoever is the enemy du jour. Wrong again Faith. Nobody was letting terrorist Muslim factions off the hook, they were fitting the hook to all parties involved in similar violence: some are Muslim, some are not. Who they were letting "off the hook" were the people not involved in violence: some are Muslim, some are not.
There is no problem defining these things except for the politically correct who don't like the correct definition and have a vested interest in confusing the issue. Then what is your definition? How do you parse out particular groups and not include others ... I'm asking because I'm curious. Do these three guys, Terry Eugene Peace, Brian Edward Cannon, and Cory Robert Williamson, fit your definition:
Are they terrorists? What about drone strikes? Bombing civilians? Enjoy Edited by RAZD, : addedby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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Jon Inactive Member |
What do right-wing extremists Terry Eugene Peace, Brian Edward Cannon, Cory Robert Williamson, the America's Sovereign Citizen Movement, and drone strikes have to do with moderate Islam?
Love your enemies!
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
Since the men in question were not Muslim, the whole thing is irrelevant. It's way too simplistic to insist that discussions not involving Muslims are irrelevant. Some people are making simplistic arguments which can be rebutted by showing that one would not make those same arguments in other similar situations. We can consider the non-muslim discussion to be a lemma in the process of addressing the topic. I agree that it should not be necessary to show that moderate Islam is what moderate Islamist practice. But apparently insisting that such is not the case allows winning this thread to have some purpose when otherwise we'd see that it is based on a silly premise.Je Suis Charlie Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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jar Member (Idle past 416 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
It would seem that more evidence is needed to show Muslims are moderate.
Maybe a survey would help define the answer. "Are you now planning an act of Terrorism?" "Have you in the last two years committed an act of terrorism?" "In the last two years have you contributed financially to any organization promoting or carrying out terrorism other than the US Government?" "Do you or any of your family provide support other than financial to Muslims in the US that are terrorists?" "Have you or any of your family volunteered to commit terrorism." ... To assure honest responses the survey should carry a fine of $25.00 for each false answer.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Jon Inactive Member |
Being involved in terrorism isn't the only way for a person to be non-moderate.
Some kind of a survey or assessment is a good idea, though. What do you think of the survey conducted in the video from Message 86? (I transcribed the survey itself in Message 92.)Love your enemies!
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Jon Inactive Member
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It's way too simplistic to insist that discussions not involving Muslims are irrelevant. Not in a thread specifically about Islam it isn't!
Some people are making simplistic arguments which can be rebutted by showing that one would not make those same arguments in other similar situations. I have mentioned that whether other religions are moderate or not doesn't matter for this thread. The only reason to bring up another religion would be for giving examples of what a moderate religion might look like so we have something to assess against.Love your enemies!
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jar Member (Idle past 416 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
I thought it was really stupid.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Adminnemooseus Administrator Posts: 3974 Joined: |
Jon writes: It's way too simplistic to insist that discussions not involving Muslims are irrelevant. Not in a thread specifically about Islam it isn't!
Some people are making simplistic arguments which can be rebutted by showing that one would not make those same arguments in other similar situations. I have mentioned that whether other religions are moderate or not doesn't matter for this thread. The only reason to bring up another religion would be for giving examples of what a moderate religion might look like so we have something to assess against. I fully agree with this message and encourage everyone to follow its guidelines. And that encouragement has the power of the Adminnemooseus to enforce it. OFFICIAL ADMIN WARNING - i CAN NOW TAKE DRASTIC MEASURES TO ENFORCE IT. AdminnemooseusOr something like that.
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Jon Inactive Member |
Care to elaborate?
It was a survey. It asked a bunch of questions that can be used to assess whether someone is moderate or not. It got a shitload of responses. What's wrong?Love your enemies!
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jar Member (Idle past 416 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
It was totally pointless and taught nothing. It is as stupid as a Search for Moderate Islam or moderate Christianity or moderate Buddhism. It seems pointless but it might employ a few folk and so that may be a saving grace.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Jon Inactive Member |
You're the fifth most active participant in this thread and all you can say now is that the topic is stupid?
Love your enemies!
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jar Member (Idle past 416 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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Jon writes:
You're the fifth most active participant in this thread and all you can say now is that the topic is stupid? Someone needed to say it. The idea of searching for moderate Islam has got to be one of the silliest threads yet. Moderate Islam, like moderate Christianity or moderate Buddhism or moderate Sikhism is everywhere. It is all the Muslims that do not make the news, the florists and grocers and lawyers and doctors and teachers and firemen and policemen and Imams and bankers and cab drivers and almost all the Muslims in the US and in the world. It's all the Muslims that just want to feed their families, not get killed, educate their sons and daughters and maybe even buy a new car for the wife to drive.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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