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Author Topic:   Is the Bible the inerrant word of God? Or is it the words of men?
jar
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 1771 of 2241 (747995)
01-21-2015 6:33 PM
Reply to: Message 1770 by Faith
01-21-2015 6:23 PM


and the evidence is?
Faith writes:
Sure they say it. Only they're wrong.
But where is the evidence to support that assertion Faith?
Where is the evidence that the Bible is NOT just the words of men?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1770 by Faith, posted 01-21-2015 6:23 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1772 by Faith, posted 01-21-2015 6:38 PM jar has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1772 of 2241 (747996)
01-21-2015 6:38 PM
Reply to: Message 1771 by jar
01-21-2015 6:33 PM


Re: and the evidence is?
I've given quite a bit of evidence on this thread, and as I said WAAAAAY back there somewhere I've stopped trying to prove anything on this thread. Ya takes it or ya leaves it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1771 by jar, posted 01-21-2015 6:33 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1776 by jar, posted 01-21-2015 7:27 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 1787 by Percy, posted 01-22-2015 7:09 AM Faith has replied

  
Golffly
Member (Idle past 3102 days)
Posts: 287
Joined: 12-19-2014


Message 1773 of 2241 (747998)
01-21-2015 6:55 PM
Reply to: Message 1770 by Faith
01-21-2015 6:23 PM


Re: King Josiah's restoration of Israel to proper worship of their God
faith writes:
Sure they say it. Only they're wrong.
They say the same about you.
The arguments they give are as persuasive as yours. Which is to say they are not. Like you they believe they are persuasive. Like you they are certain. Like you others are obviously wrong.
And like you, they have no evidence but claim they do.
You're a literal bible thumper instead of coming from Afghanistan and being a literal Islam extremist.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1770 by Faith, posted 01-21-2015 6:23 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1774 by Faith, posted 01-21-2015 7:00 PM Golffly has not replied
 Message 1775 by Faith, posted 01-21-2015 7:12 PM Golffly has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1774 of 2241 (747999)
01-21-2015 7:00 PM
Reply to: Message 1773 by Golffly
01-21-2015 6:55 PM


Re: King Josiah's restoration of Israel to proper worship of their God
And as I said, they are SOOOOOOO wrong.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1773 by Golffly, posted 01-21-2015 6:55 PM Golffly has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1775 of 2241 (748000)
01-21-2015 7:12 PM
Reply to: Message 1773 by Golffly
01-21-2015 6:55 PM


Re: King Josiah's restoration of Israel to proper worship of their God
Christianity has a Savior, God Himself, who paid for our sins, no other religion has a savior, they all have you work for "salvation" which isn't salvation because we're all so deep in sin we're all going to hell if we have to depend on our own good works. We need a Savior, God has provided it. All the human-invented religions are just going to take you to Hell.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1773 by Golffly, posted 01-21-2015 6:55 PM Golffly has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1777 by Golffly, posted 01-21-2015 10:59 PM Faith has replied
 Message 1778 by jar, posted 01-21-2015 11:18 PM Faith has replied
 Message 1788 by Percy, posted 01-22-2015 7:10 AM Faith has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 1776 of 2241 (748001)
01-21-2015 7:27 PM
Reply to: Message 1772 by Faith
01-21-2015 6:38 PM


Re: and the evidence is?
Faith writes:
I've given quite a bit of evidence on this thread, and as I said WAAAAAY back there somewhere I've stopped trying to prove anything on this thread. Ya takes it or ya leaves it.
You keep claiming there is evidence but never seem willing to provide the details.
Let's see what the evidence that the Bible is just the word of man might be?
First, despite your denial, the Bible stories are filled with contradictions, errors and falsehoods. There are two major lines of evidence, the first is the words written in the Bible stories themselves. A second and even stronger evidence is the existence of all them commentators, many marketing different attempted scenarios to try to explain away the errors, contradictions and falsehoods. There is also the fact that the god character varies from story to story, some competent others bumbling, some sure others unsure, some fair but others far too often unfair, some evil and others kind but there is no single uniform universal god to be found.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1772 by Faith, posted 01-21-2015 6:38 PM Faith has not replied

  
Golffly
Member (Idle past 3102 days)
Posts: 287
Joined: 12-19-2014


Message 1777 of 2241 (748005)
01-21-2015 10:59 PM
Reply to: Message 1775 by Faith
01-21-2015 7:12 PM


Re: King Josiah's restoration of Israel to proper worship of their God
faith writes:
Christianity has a Savior, God Himself, who paid for our sins, no other religion has a savior, they all have you work for "salvation" which isn't salvation because we're all so deep in sin we're all going to hell if we have to depend on our own good works. We need a Savior, God has provided it. All the human-invented religions are just going to take you to Hell.
As Percy has said a number of times and which you simply don't " get", you have to explain why the differences to your religion matter when compared to other religions. You need proof is what that means. Otherwise your bunk, is the same bunk painted another color. You are either simply not smart enough to comprehend this or drank too much Koolaid for it to matter ( like other different religious Koolaid drinkers)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1775 by Faith, posted 01-21-2015 7:12 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1779 by Faith, posted 01-21-2015 11:31 PM Golffly has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 1778 of 2241 (748006)
01-21-2015 11:18 PM
Reply to: Message 1775 by Faith
01-21-2015 7:12 PM


the Easy sell or What's in it for me?
Faith writes:
Christianity has a Savior, God Himself, who paid for our sins, no other religion has a savior, they all have you work for "salvation" which isn't salvation because we're all so deep in sin we're all going to hell if we have to depend on our own good works. We need a Savior, God has provided it. All the human-invented religions are just going to take you to Hell.
That is certainly the easy sell, the "Kiss Hank's Ass" brand of cheap Christianity, the "I ain't perfect just saved" snake oil that is easy to sell, costs nothing and carries no product liability. It's a safe con job for the carny con men that work the Fundamentalist and Biblical Christian circuits and has made many of the rich.
But it also simply does not stand up to examination and is only supported by the same old palm the pea tactics of quote mining and proof texts and slick advertising.
It is definitely just selling the sizzle and no beef or steak involved.
It's FUD and it worked for IBM as well as Christianity and if you listen to the modern Biblical Christians (particularly the protestant hucksters and their sermons on line) sound exactly like the Roman Catholics selling "Indulgences"; just far more profitably and successfully.
The fact is no one has a clue whether or not they are saved or their sins forgiven until after they have died and they are judged, but "Are you saved" and "Washed in the blood of the savior" are great marketing commercials and a far easier sale then "Take up your Cross and follow me" or "Do for the least of these".
Anyone that claims someone is "saved" is simply a liar and should be ridiculed but religion in the US is a protected con game and as long as they report their earnings and pay their taxes it's likely the pastors and bishops and brothers can get away with selling salvation.
Of course Faith is still wrong about Christianity being unique in that regard since almost every religion offers the same con. The Muslim too is saved and the Jew is honest enough to doubt if there even is life after death.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1775 by Faith, posted 01-21-2015 7:12 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1780 by Faith, posted 01-21-2015 11:33 PM jar has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1779 of 2241 (748007)
01-21-2015 11:31 PM
Reply to: Message 1777 by Golffly
01-21-2015 10:59 PM


Re: King Josiah's restoration of Israel to proper worship of their God
you have to explain why the differences to your religion matter when compared to other religions. You need proof is what that means
You don't get why we need a Savior? Hell isn't any fun and we're all going there if it's up to our own moral records. That's why we need a Savior.
But I'm not into proof on this thread any more, how many times do I need to say it? I put up some good arguments along those lines, they failed to convince anyone, or even get a fair hearing, so I said that's that and stopped putting up arguments. I was pretty clear about that after the Abraham-Isaac posts. I still think there's enough in that to make a reasonable person have to stop and think, but maybe there aren't any reasonable people here. Anyway, since then I'm just answering the usual bunch of accusations people throw at me.
Also I'd point out that Christianity is to be preached, not proved. It nowhere says we are to prove God, prove His existence, prove anything. What it says is it's to be preached. Those who "have an ear to ear" will hear and be saved. That's the way it happens.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1777 by Golffly, posted 01-21-2015 10:59 PM Golffly has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1789 by Percy, posted 01-22-2015 7:25 AM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1780 of 2241 (748008)
01-21-2015 11:33 PM
Reply to: Message 1778 by jar
01-21-2015 11:18 PM


Re: the Easy sell or What's in it for me?
If you don't have a clue whether you're saved or not then you aren't saved, it's that simple. John in particular wrote out the ways you can test if you're saved or not. In fact he said he wrote what he wrote so that we COULD know that we're saved.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1778 by jar, posted 01-21-2015 11:18 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1781 by jar, posted 01-21-2015 11:36 PM Faith has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 1781 of 2241 (748009)
01-21-2015 11:36 PM
Reply to: Message 1780 by Faith
01-21-2015 11:33 PM


Re: the Easy sell or What's in it for me?
LOL
Like I said, an easy sell and it carries no product liability. Great con job. If you die and discover you ain't saved who you gonna sue?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1780 by Faith, posted 01-21-2015 11:33 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1782 by Faith, posted 01-21-2015 11:39 PM jar has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1782 of 2241 (748011)
01-21-2015 11:39 PM
Reply to: Message 1781 by jar
01-21-2015 11:36 PM


Re: the Easy sell or What's in it for me?
In your case I expect you'll be kicking yourself for eternity since you've knocked yourself out destroying the truth that would lead you to salvation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1781 by jar, posted 01-21-2015 11:36 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1783 by jar, posted 01-21-2015 11:46 PM Faith has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 1783 of 2241 (748012)
01-21-2015 11:46 PM
Reply to: Message 1782 by Faith
01-21-2015 11:39 PM


Re: the Easy sell or What's in it for me?
And that is simply more evidence that the Bible is just the words of men. According to the Bible the Goats thought they would be saved as well and that is the Jesus character talking not John marketing.
The Bible stories are filled with such contradictory passages.
Matthew 25 writes:
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Note that nowhere is belief mentioned at all and all of the evidence is based on doing.
Who you gonna believe, Jesus or John?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1782 by Faith, posted 01-21-2015 11:39 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1784 by Faith, posted 01-21-2015 11:49 PM jar has seen this message but not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1784 of 2241 (748013)
01-21-2015 11:49 PM
Reply to: Message 1783 by jar
01-21-2015 11:46 PM


Re: the Easy sell or What's in it for me?
Case in point.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1783 by jar, posted 01-21-2015 11:46 PM jar has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22480
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 1785 of 2241 (748025)
01-22-2015 6:53 AM
Reply to: Message 1766 by Faith
01-21-2015 5:38 PM


Re: King Josiah's restoration of Israel to proper worship of their God
Faith writes:
Uh, no. Not even close, though many (me included) have noted when you've claimed unique qualities for Christianity that are in fact possessed by other religions, such as when you claimed other religions don't have God or gods visiting disasters upon their adherents.
That's not what I said. Care to try again?
That's precisely what you said, and here you are saying it in your Message 1710:
Faith in Message 1710 writes:
Well, it's quite true, no other religion concerns itself with God's judgments against nations as the Bible does,...
This is undoubtedly false.
Biblical Christians often point out how various disasters are God's judgments on us. You will not find any such thing in other religions.
So there you are, saying just what I said you said. It's just one example of many of you claiming unique qualities for Christianity that are in fact possessed by many other religions.
You can't blame others if you're going to say things that are so stupid that after a couple days even you don't recognize them and think they're stupid.
That's not how I think of it. I give what I think are very good reasons to take Christianity seriously and then you come back and say all religions are like that and I say no they aren't. And they aren't.
But they are, and your claim that only in Christianity does God visit disasters upon his people is a perfect example. You claimed that only Christianity has that quality, and the truth is that many religions possess that quality.
I've given some good reasons...
No, you haven't given any good reasons. What you've actually done is abandoned every line of argument you've started, refusing to debate them further but claiming you'd already proved your point.
Christianity isn't just the standard, it's the only true religion, given by God Himself; all the others are man-made, in collaboration in some cases with demons.
These are your religious beliefs, not evidence or rational arguments. You're preaching, not debating.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1766 by Faith, posted 01-21-2015 5:38 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1795 by Faith, posted 01-22-2015 10:29 AM Percy has replied

  
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