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Author Topic:   Homosexuality and Evo, Creo, and ID
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 677 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1216 of 1309 (742480)
11-20-2014 1:38 PM
Reply to: Message 1215 by ringo
11-20-2014 12:13 PM


Re: Just Wait a Bit
I don't try to determine it in many cases, sometimes it's just clear that something is judgment.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1215 by ringo, posted 11-20-2014 12:13 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1217 by frako, posted 11-21-2014 5:56 AM Faith has taken no action
 Message 1219 by Capt Stormfield, posted 11-21-2014 4:30 PM Faith has taken no action
 Message 1220 by ringo, posted 11-22-2014 10:48 AM Faith has taken no action

frako
Member
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


(1)
Message 1217 of 1309 (742522)
11-21-2014 5:56 AM
Reply to: Message 1216 by Faith
11-20-2014 1:38 PM


Re: Just Wait a Bit
I don't try to determine it in many cases, sometimes it's just clear that something is judgment.

So we have to relie on you, our new prophet sent form the lord to divine to us what simply explainable events are gods judgment and what are not?


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1216 by Faith, posted 11-20-2014 1:38 PM Faith has taken no action

Taq
Member
Posts: 8519
Joined: 03-06-2009


(7)
Message 1218 of 1309 (742546)
11-21-2014 2:17 PM
Reply to: Message 1214 by Faith
11-20-2014 12:04 PM


Re: Just Wait a Bit
Not everything is judgment.

IOW, you just make it up as you go along.

If the US bans gay marriage, and then there is a plague that kills a million people, that wasn't a judgement.

If the US allows gay marriage, and then there is a plague that kills a million people, that was a judgement against the US.

That's how it works, does it not?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1214 by Faith, posted 11-20-2014 12:04 PM Faith has taken no action

Capt Stormfield
Member (Idle past 149 days)
Posts: 424
From: Vancouver Island
Joined: 01-17-2009


(2)
Message 1219 of 1309 (742551)
11-21-2014 4:30 PM
Reply to: Message 1216 by Faith
11-20-2014 1:38 PM


Re: Just Wait a Bit
I don't try to determine it in many cases, sometimes it's just clear that something is judgment.

How is it, exactly, that you draw a distinction between "I determine" and "It's just clear"?

KP


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1216 by Faith, posted 11-20-2014 1:38 PM Faith has taken no action

ringo
Member
Posts: 19521
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 1220 of 1309 (742602)
11-22-2014 10:48 AM
Reply to: Message 1216 by Faith
11-20-2014 1:38 PM


Re: Just Wait a Bit
Faith writes:

I don't try to determine it in many cases, sometimes it's just clear that something is judgment.


Sometimes, when I'm walking down the street, I'll think, "Ice cream!" I don't try to determine why I want ice cream, though it's very clear that I do. Must be a sign from God.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1216 by Faith, posted 11-20-2014 1:38 PM Faith has taken no action

Replies to this message:
 Message 1223 by Tanypteryx, posted 11-22-2014 4:27 PM ringo has seen this message

Astrophile
Member
Posts: 90
From: United Kingdom
Joined: 02-10-2014


Message 1221 of 1309 (742640)
11-22-2014 2:53 PM
Reply to: Message 1037 by Faith
11-16-2014 11:56 AM


The letter to Buckingham supposedly calling him "wife" is just odd. abe: For him to mention God loving him in a letter to a homosexual lover makes NO sense at all. It sounds like a letter he would have written to his wife Anne that got misattributed to Buckingham, and how that might have happened raises all kinds of strange questions about the integrity of somebody in this saga. /abe.

Queen Anne died in March 1619, more than five years before the date of this letter. Being in the same situation myself, I accept that a widower might write letters to his wife; my late wife is often in my thoughts, and I suppose that I might put my thoughts on paper in a letter to her. However, King James's letter looks to me like something written to a living person, not to somebody who has been dead for several years.


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 Message 1037 by Faith, posted 11-16-2014 11:56 AM Faith has taken no action

Astrophile
Member
Posts: 90
From: United Kingdom
Joined: 02-10-2014


Message 1222 of 1309 (742641)
11-22-2014 2:59 PM
Reply to: Message 1041 by Faith
11-16-2014 12:44 PM


The Wikipedia article on Buckingham has him saying he only lives in the world for James, not the other way around as you have it.

Perhaps the feeling was mutual.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1041 by Faith, posted 11-16-2014 12:44 PM Faith has taken no action

Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 3287
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.1


(1)
Message 1223 of 1309 (742655)
11-22-2014 4:27 PM
Reply to: Message 1220 by ringo
11-22-2014 10:48 AM


Re: Just Wait a Bit
Sometimes, when I'm walking down the street, I'll think, "Ice cream!" I don't try to determine why I want ice cream, though it's very clear that I do. Must be a sign from God.

If it's "Neopolitan" or "Rocky Road" it is clearly a sign from Satan.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1220 by ringo, posted 11-22-2014 10:48 AM ringo has seen this message

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16112
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 1224 of 1309 (744241)
12-09-2014 10:08 AM


Meanwhile ...

Over the weekend, Republicans in the Michigan Statehouse passed a “license to discriminate” bill that would give just about anyone the right to refuse service to LGBT people if it conflicted with their religious beliefs.

The broadly written Religious Freedom Restoration Act would allow, for example, an EMT to refuse emergency treatment to a gay person or a pharmacist to refuse to refill HIV medication, because God decreed gays and lesbians should be put to death.

The measure is similar to one in Arizona that even right-wing governor Jan Brewer thought went too far and vetoed.


Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16112
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 1225 of 1309 (748180)
01-23-2015 11:23 AM
Reply to: Message 595 by Dr Adequate
11-05-2014 1:41 PM


Re: Second Thoughts
So ... this.

A Colorado baker is facing a state discrimination investigation after refusing to make a cake with a bitter theme. But a Texas ministry on Thursday disavowed the complaint one of its co-founders filed against the woman who refused to sell him cakes with anti-gay messages.

Marjorie Silva, owner of Azucar Bakery in Denver, said she told the man, Bill Jack of the Denver suburb of Castle Rock, that she wouldn't fill his order last March for two cakes in the shape of the Bible, to be decorated with phrases like "God hates gays" and an image of two men holding hands with an "X" on top.

Silva told NBC station KUSA of Denver that she later received a discrimination complaint from the Civil Rights Division of the Colorado Department of Regulatory Agencies. "After I read it, I was like, 'No way,'" Silva said. "We're not doing this. This is just very discriminatory and hateful."

I don't often say this, but well played, evil bigot, well played. This is what I was talking about. She shouldn't have the right to refuse him service based on his views, but she should have the right to not actually endorse his views by providing him with a service. Let's ban discrimination by all means, but there ought to be a fence around people's first amendment rights --- the government can't force people to say things they violently disagree with.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 1226 by Tangle, posted 01-23-2015 12:00 PM Dr Adequate has replied
 Message 1227 by PaulK, posted 01-23-2015 12:09 PM Dr Adequate has replied
 Message 1249 by RAZD, posted 01-24-2015 3:13 PM Dr Adequate has taken no action

Tangle
Member
Posts: 8485
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 1226 of 1309 (748190)
01-23-2015 12:00 PM
Reply to: Message 1225 by Dr Adequate
01-23-2015 11:23 AM


I think - but I'm not sure - that in the UK the baker would have a defence against the discrimination charge because had she complied she might have been guilty of a crime herself.

Expressions of hatred toward someone on account of that person's colour, race, nationality (including citizenship), ethnic or national origin, religion, or sexual orientation is forbidden.[1][2][3] Any communication which is threatening or abusive, and is intended to harass, alarm, or distress someone is forbidden.[4] The penalties for hate speech include fines, imprisonment, or both.[5]

Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1225 by Dr Adequate, posted 01-23-2015 11:23 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1228 by Dr Adequate, posted 01-23-2015 12:36 PM Tangle has replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17167
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 1227 of 1309 (748191)
01-23-2015 12:09 PM
Reply to: Message 1225 by Dr Adequate
01-23-2015 11:23 AM


Re: Second Thoughts
Except that in THIS case the baker agreed to do everything but the offensive slogans. The cake and the inoffensive decorations WERE offered. That is quite a difference, and may be sufficient in itself to give this case a different outcome.

Also, I think he'd have a big problem arguing that anti-gay bigots are a protected class.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1225 by Dr Adequate, posted 01-23-2015 11:23 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1230 by Dr Adequate, posted 01-23-2015 1:05 PM PaulK has replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16112
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 1228 of 1309 (748194)
01-23-2015 12:36 PM
Reply to: Message 1226 by Tangle
01-23-2015 12:00 PM


Well, as a British expat I don't like to say anything bad about the UK. Nonetheless ... I do like the First Amendment, I like the rigid application of it. Then I look at Europe and I find that in the UK there are laws such as you cite --- and in France they can ban the burqa. If there is one thing the USA can teach the EU, it's that you need a First Amendment. If the government can control speech and expression ad hoc, then speech is not free, and you are not free.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1226 by Tangle, posted 01-23-2015 12:00 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1229 by Tangle, posted 01-23-2015 1:04 PM Dr Adequate has taken no action

Tangle
Member
Posts: 8485
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 1229 of 1309 (748195)
01-23-2015 1:04 PM
Reply to: Message 1228 by Dr Adequate
01-23-2015 12:36 PM


It's a very controversial law - its heart is in the right place but it's a step too far.

Edited by Tangle, : It's and its get me 3 times out of ten. Grrr


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1228 by Dr Adequate, posted 01-23-2015 12:36 PM Dr Adequate has taken no action

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16112
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 1230 of 1309 (748196)
01-23-2015 1:05 PM
Reply to: Message 1227 by PaulK
01-23-2015 12:09 PM


Re: Second Thoughts
Also, I think he'd have a big problem arguing that anti-gay bigots are a protected class.

But he's doing it, and rather well. He wants a cake that expresses his deeply-held religious beliefs. If he is refused, he is being discriminated against because the owners of the cake shop don't like his religious beliefs. There is apparently a law in Colorado protecting him from that. I say that this law goes too far.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1227 by PaulK, posted 01-23-2015 12:09 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1231 by PaulK, posted 01-23-2015 1:48 PM Dr Adequate has replied
 Message 1232 by Tempe 12ft Chicken, posted 01-23-2015 1:58 PM Dr Adequate has taken no action

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