Summations Only

You're wrong because you read religious sites believing the same thing you do and wall out independent thought.Could Jesus be touched before ascension?
No: Well, ya

You said a mouth full there.God doesn't get angry: If he does it's just a moment Sometimes it's a forty year moment Then sometimes, it's well, forever,

What about the unfortunate handicapped people Okay god made them that way but surely he's fair about the handicap he inflicted upon them. Not so much actually.

Now those two examples are examples of creating a false prophetic fulfillment; of marketing; of a con. It is people saying "Hey there is a passage that says the king will come in on an ass so let's get an ass and Jesus can ride into Jerusalem on it."Others pointed out "But wait, there will be lots of folk riding into Jerusalem on asses. It happens every day."The reply, "Don't worry about that, we'll advertise that he did it."

In my view, that's exactly what it is.
It's a made prophecy from reading OT and making Jesus fit the OT by the writer.
Then those that should know better, reading it and carefully not mentioning obvious problems of 1) anybody can be riding an ass or2) more specifically, writing in that the guy rides in on an ass to make it fit.
It's disingenuous. It started early in the game and continues today.

You mean that avoiding unclean foods was necessary for Noah, Abraham, Moses and all ancient Jews, but then God changed his mind, but the Jews didn't notice? And this occurred right around the time the founder of your religion arrived on the scene? Interesting. The evidence we have says that the Pentateuch had many authors over a long time period, and that the two accounts in Genesis derived from two similar but divergent traditions by different authors that were later combined into one. There is no evidence that Moses wrote the Pentateuch. Well, yes, of course, collecting a number of different books between a single set of covers doesn't mean that independent accounts can't validate each other. But the Bible has precious few independent accounts. It was, as you say, written over a very long period of time, and the authors of the newer books had read the older books. Luke and Matthew were obviously aware of the prophecy of the mode of transportation taken by the Messiah into Jerusalem.There's no evidence of anything you say. There's no evidence that Moses wrote the Pentateuch, and plenty of evidence of many authors. There's no evidence of fulfilled prophecy. There's no evidence of inerrancy, and plenty of evidence of errors and contradictions. And just recently you changed the definition of inerrancy, from applying to the entire Bible to only applying to teaching that matters, where you alone decide what teaching matters and what doesn't. Objectivity isn't in your vocabulary.So I'm curious. That pi equals three and insects have four legs and that bats are birds, are these errors that don't matter and so don't affect claims of inerrancy, or are they teaching that matters and that therefore require convoluted explanations?--Percy

After you've all made just a miserable mess of the supposed discrepancies that are easy to resolve, although there are a few that are much harder than that, I know it's time to throw in the towel. The forces of darkness have won again.

No you don't, Percy. Produce the evidence. I'll tell you what it is: it's a bunch of self-styled "scholars" sitting around imaging things, that's ALL it is. They subjectively decide that this part of the Pentateuch just doesn't sound to them like that part. Yep, that's the sort of "evidence" you are putting above thirty five hundred years of knowledge of the source of the texts. Only that the Jews knew it was and they were obsessive about their texts, about precise copying and preserving and so on, so that our own OT is just about identical with the Dead Sea Scrolls.. They'd preserved and read their fanatically preserved texts every Sabbath down through the centuries. All you have is a few modernday self-appointed destroyers that make up their own stuff.

Sure there's lots, lots, lots more. When two equals seven, I have no doubt you can resolve anything in your head. How else could it be inerrant. (The unknown author Matthew, who helps fix the unknown author Mark's screwed up geography, has the bible record in contradictions)
You know the Quran has far, far fewer contradictions. And Allah, well he hardly kills anybody. Yahweh has him beat by a long shot.

quote:

---

Only that the Jews knew it was and they were obsessive about their texts, about precise copying and preserving and so on, so that our own OT is just about identical with the Dead Sea Scrolls.

---

That is misleading at best. In reality there are variations even in the Greek version of the OT - which the early Christians used - as against the Masoretic text which is the standard Hebrew version. The Masoretic text itself was produced as a deliberate effort to produce an authoritative text, because of the variations that had crept in.And the Dead Sea Scrolls include even more variations - they may include versions substantially identical to the texts used to translate Bibles, but they also contain other variations, some of them major. And, while the Masoretic text was the majority other texts support the Greek "Septuagint".So, the idea that the text has been transmitted, unchanged, since the original writings was already highly suspect before the discovery of the DSS. The DSS put it to rest, once and for all - and showed that the early Christians used a text derived from a different manuscript tradition.

I have observed the conversation with some interest. There were 12 disciples until Judas died...for a season there were 11, and then more were again selected. Truthfully, though---I wont waste my time trying to defend the Good Book.(Books?) We must ask ourselves what specifically and precisely what we are trying to prove. Are we trying to prove something because we believe it is our duty and calling? Do we simply enjoy the verbal joust? Personally I worry little about defending God. I agree with Faith that many of us will be amazed some day as to the actual reality behind these ancient beliefs.I don't wish to gleefully watch my opponents burn, however. Additionally, though I believe that I share my heart, mind, and belief worldview here at EvC, I don't feel it is my duty to try and convert everyone.

I often wish I had the ability to defend it better but it's a tremendous study to learn all the supposed discrepancies and the orthodox understanding that resolves them. The reason to do it is to help those whose faith is challenged by such things, I feel bad for them and know God would reward helping them get back on track.But as I said the study it would take is really more than I can handle, and as this discussion shows, even knowing how to resolve the discrepancies -- and the ones given here were really not discrepancies anyway, just willful misreadings -- doesn't convince those who are committed to finding fault with the Bible, which makes the effort doubly futile. Whether showing that there are resolutions could really help someone in this environment I don't know.I DO feel we have an obligation to do our best to convince people of the gospel, that's our most basic calling as Christians.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

That's a nice admission. But if you are not in a position to engage in said research (and I'm thinking about not just this subject) is it intellectually honest to make unsubstantiated assertions?All the best.Edited by Larni, : Spellink

I haven't made an unsubstantiated assertions, I've argued for the orthodox views of the examples given.

You have asserted your point, not argued your point; as you have (by your own admission) not done the research that would allow you to argue your point.All the best.