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Author Topic:   A measured look at a difficult situation
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 226 of 289 (748871)
01-30-2015 2:02 PM
Reply to: Message 223 by Faith
01-30-2015 4:47 AM


I refuse to read snark and rudeness. Sometimes.
That could not possibly be the reason why you ignored message 17; a message which might well have ended this sorry affair 200 posts ago.

Je Suis Charlie
Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 223 by Faith, posted 01-30-2015 4:47 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 227 by Faith, posted 01-30-2015 5:56 PM NoNukes has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 227 of 289 (748884)
01-30-2015 5:56 PM
Reply to: Message 226 by NoNukes
01-30-2015 2:02 PM


Well, what would you guess was my reason?
Second look I think it was the way the post was put together, not easy to tell what his subject was, plus the snark about Ian Paisley, but I don't remember the post so anything's possible.
ABE: Third look:
To Faith: I ask you to do some research on your claims that the IRA began the conflict, and that ONLY protestants were adversely affected.
This is probably the main reason, he's asking me to do research when he should be supplying the information he wants me to find on my own. And I never said that "only Protestants were adversely affected," my position was that they were murdered. The Catholics surely suffered too, as Tempe had already pointed out many times, but not by being murdered outright, and there was also the theme that kept being denied, that the Catholics were suffering from the effects of legal punishments. Also I never said it was only a religious conflict, only that it was the religious conflict I was interested in. It's a long post and I think I must have skimmed it, seen those things that hit me as not worth spending time on, and went on. All that is probably why I didn't see any point in addressing it.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 226 by NoNukes, posted 01-30-2015 2:02 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 228 by NoNukes, posted 01-30-2015 9:28 PM Faith has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 228 of 289 (748897)
01-30-2015 9:28 PM
Reply to: Message 227 by Faith
01-30-2015 5:56 PM


This is probably the main reason, he's asking me to do research when he should be supplying the information he wants me to find on my own.
Nonsense. Heathen's post is chock full of information. And given your displayed propensity not to trust anyone, the recommendation that you should check yourself to see if the poster was just making stuff up was well advised.
Quite frankly, I am a bit curious where you get the one sided accounts of things you come up with. It's almost impossible to do any serious look into things and not come up with a broader picture.
If I were a betting man, I'd wager that any concessions you've seem to have made here will be forgotten the next time you need to show that Catholics are evil and Protestants are angels.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Je Suis Charlie
Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 227 by Faith, posted 01-30-2015 5:56 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 229 by Faith, posted 01-30-2015 9:34 PM NoNukes has replied
 Message 231 by Faith, posted 01-30-2015 10:09 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 229 of 289 (748898)
01-30-2015 9:34 PM
Reply to: Message 228 by NoNukes
01-30-2015 9:28 PM


I think the last thing I said about my reason for passing over his post is correct and you are quite wrong to insist on your own interpretation of my motives in any case. I saw that admonition to research it and that was more than enough. Didn't get to his information which at a glance didn't seem to be very well supported anyway.
I've been collecting information on the Catholic Church for some time, but it needs a lot more research than I've been up to. Lots of sources. One I'd like to get when I can afford it is H. Grattan Guinness, forget the title. Some of his are online though. You can check my Catholicism blog for a start as to where I'm getting my inspiration.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 228 by NoNukes, posted 01-30-2015 9:28 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 230 by NoNukes, posted 01-30-2015 10:04 PM Faith has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 230 of 289 (748901)
01-30-2015 10:04 PM
Reply to: Message 229 by Faith
01-30-2015 9:34 PM


I saw that admonition to research it and that was more than enough.
I did not say that your motive was not based on what you claimed. I said that not reading the post for your claimed motive was ridiculous.
You are quite wrong to insist on your own interpretation of my motives in any case
I disagree. I was completely correct that you did not avoid reading that post due to snark and rudeness. And I stand by my characterization of the second motive you postulate. Further, you've given equally bogus excuses for avoiding other posts.
I've been collecting information on the Catholic Church for some time, but it needs a lot more research than I've been up to.
As Neil of the Young Ones might have said, "If I had a penny for every time you said that [I had to answer the door] I'd have 5.63". Isn't there already a thread from 2006 or so where you promised us the same information you still "need to research"? Surely someone has written a fubar Catholic bashing account or two that you could have quoted and had ripped to shreds by now.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Je Suis Charlie
Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 229 by Faith, posted 01-30-2015 9:34 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 232 by Faith, posted 01-30-2015 10:11 PM NoNukes has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 231 of 289 (748902)
01-30-2015 10:09 PM
Reply to: Message 228 by NoNukes
01-30-2015 9:28 PM


If I were a betting man, I'd wager that any concessions you've seem to have made here will be forgotten the next time you need to show that Catholics are evil and Protestants are angels.
You are misrepresenting me here. In some cases it is Catholics who are doing the acting, such as the IRA and the Irish Rebellion, but my interest isn't in Catholics as such, it's in the Roman Catholic papacy, which is behind a lot more of the violence in this world than I had any idea until the last few years. The Protestant Reformers recognized the papacy as the Antichrist as defined in the Bible, all of them did, it leapt out at them as soon as they got themselves free of the errors they were struggling with. I'm sorry to see that Protestantism has degenerated over the last century and forgotten the lesson of the Reformers. I don't think Protestants are angels, but you sijmply won't find them instigating violence against other religions just because of their beliefs as you will find Catholics doing at the urging of their priests. It's a difference of doctrine, and most Catholics, as I've been at pains to clarify, don't even know about the papal doctrines that I'm trying to learn about.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 228 by NoNukes, posted 01-30-2015 9:28 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 232 of 289 (748903)
01-30-2015 10:11 PM
Reply to: Message 230 by NoNukes
01-30-2015 10:04 PM


Thanks for the lies. That's what they are.
No this doesn't go back to 2006, more like two or three years ago, and I have read quite a bit but there's a lot to read, and beyond reading, there's a lot that needs to be organized.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 230 by NoNukes, posted 01-30-2015 10:04 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 233 by NoNukes, posted 01-30-2015 10:17 PM Faith has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 233 of 289 (748904)
01-30-2015 10:17 PM
Reply to: Message 232 by Faith
01-30-2015 10:11 PM


NoNukes writes:
Isn't there already a thread from 2006 or so where you promised us the same information
Faith writes:
Thanks for the lies. That's what they are.
No this doesn't go back to 2006, more like two or three years ago
Lol! 5.63! Stop it! ROFL!
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Je Suis Charlie
Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 232 by Faith, posted 01-30-2015 10:11 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 234 by Faith, posted 01-30-2015 10:27 PM NoNukes has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 234 of 289 (748905)
01-30-2015 10:27 PM
Reply to: Message 233 by NoNukes
01-30-2015 10:17 PM


I first heard of Chris Pinto late in 2011 or early 2012 and he was the one who got me into the history of Catholicism as an ongoing effort to overthrow the Protestant Reformation and recover their lost political power. I started my blog on the subject in 2012. If I wrote anything on the subject before that it would have been from a different angle because I didn't know any of this until Chris Pinto's documentary films.
You are right that I'm very slow at getting the work done I keep saying I want to do. It may be beyond me by now.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 233 by NoNukes, posted 01-30-2015 10:17 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 235 by NoNukes, posted 01-30-2015 10:44 PM Faith has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 235 of 289 (748906)
01-30-2015 10:44 PM
Reply to: Message 234 by Faith
01-30-2015 10:27 PM


I first heard of Chris Pinto late in 2011 or early 2012
Chris Pinto? Thanks for taking the edge off of my anticipation.
You are right that I'm very slow at getting the work done I keep saying I want to do. It may be beyond me by now.
Let me lighten your load. There is no reason to push this stuff to the top of your to do list on my account. I probably won't find a conspiracy theory from Chris Pinto very compelling.

Je Suis Charlie
Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 234 by Faith, posted 01-30-2015 10:27 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 236 by Faith, posted 01-30-2015 10:56 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 236 of 289 (748907)
01-30-2015 10:56 PM
Reply to: Message 235 by NoNukes
01-30-2015 10:44 PM


Not for you, just something I've wanted to do for some time and it's hard going.
Poor Chris, there is such a thing as a conspiracy and he's been turning up the evidence for it, not just theory, but actuality. This is what I'd like to be better able to get organized for my own purposes.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 235 by NoNukes, posted 01-30-2015 10:44 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 237 by Theodoric, posted 01-31-2015 9:59 AM Faith has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 237 of 289 (748919)
01-31-2015 9:59 AM
Reply to: Message 236 by Faith
01-30-2015 10:56 PM


Chris Pinto is a liar for Jesus, with seemingly no research of critical thinking skills. So say other Christians.
The Pintonian Inquisition: Scholarship or McCarthyism? | Christian Research Network

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 236 by Faith, posted 01-30-2015 10:56 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 239 by Faith, posted 01-31-2015 2:42 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 238 of 289 (748924)
01-31-2015 10:38 AM
Reply to: Message 225 by Faith
01-30-2015 12:39 PM


Faith writes:
Gosh, reading snark and rudeness is now commanded by the Bible?
Well, calling people idiots all the time probably isn't what Jesus meant by "doing unto others".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 225 by Faith, posted 01-30-2015 12:39 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 239 of 289 (748943)
01-31-2015 2:42 PM
Reply to: Message 237 by Theodoric
01-31-2015 9:59 AM


Sad. Pinto has answered most of that already but it's totally unfair in any case. The only thing I'd partly agree with is that he makes too much of the connection between Tischendorf and the Pope. Nevertheless the connection is there. The accusation that he was saying Kurschner had some kind of pro-homosexual position is false: all Pinto said was that Harvard is known for its liberalism and that is an example of it, not that homosexual liberalism as such had anything to do with Kurschner. This he answered clearly, in that excerpt given, but of course such accusations will come up against him because people don't like what he has to say about Rome.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 237 by Theodoric, posted 01-31-2015 9:59 AM Theodoric has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 240 by NoNukes, posted 02-01-2015 1:46 AM Faith has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 240 of 289 (748979)
02-01-2015 1:46 AM
Reply to: Message 239 by Faith
01-31-2015 2:42 PM


The accusation that he was saying Kurschner had some kind of pro-homosexual position is false
I recommend that anyone who believes Faith's account take a listen to Pinto's words surrounding the slams on Harvard Divinity. It is pretty clear that the entire reasson for even discussing the liberal positions of Harvard was to tar Alan Kurschner with Harvard's reputation. One might possibly make the argument that Chris did not intend the pro-homosexual parts of his Harvard comments to stick to Kurschner, but that would be an extremely charitable reading of Pinto's words.
Chris's own words, in audio, with full context can be found here:
http://www.purposedrivel.com/...s-his-broadcast-removes.html
This he answered clearly, in that excerpt given, but of course such accusations will come up against him because people don't like what he has to say about Rome.
The accusations were very well warranted. Chris comments were directed at Alan because of Alan's critique of Chris' work. But apparently anything anti-Catholicism is okay in your book.

Je Suis Charlie
Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 239 by Faith, posted 01-31-2015 2:42 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 241 by Faith, posted 02-01-2015 2:19 AM NoNukes has replied

  
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