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Author Topic:   A measured look at a difficult situation
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 44 of 289 (747739)
01-19-2015 2:09 AM
Reply to: Message 41 by Faith
01-18-2015 9:37 PM


Re: Crime and its punishment aren't the same thing
The English invasion of America was also just by the same standard I suppose, but the authority changed hands at the end because the US won. Ireland didn't win, English authority remained. I think you have an argument with history.
In short, despite denying having said so, your answer is that winner is ultimately justified.

Je Suis Charlie
Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by Faith, posted 01-18-2015 9:37 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by Faith, posted 01-19-2015 2:18 PM NoNukes has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 101 of 289 (747920)
01-20-2015 9:14 PM
Reply to: Message 99 by Faith
01-20-2015 8:00 PM


Re: Crime and its punishment aren't the same thing
I think they might have guillotined a few in England for treason against the crown at one time or another though
Faith, we both know that James IV personally oversaw torture trials dozens (perhaps more than 100) people suspected of being witches because he blamed some storms that ruined one of his voyages on witches. Remember how you told us you were going to look into whether those people were actually witches? How did that research go?

Je Suis Charlie
Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by Faith, posted 01-20-2015 8:00 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 102 by Faith, posted 01-20-2015 9:50 PM NoNukes has not replied
 Message 103 by Faith, posted 01-20-2015 10:36 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 114 of 289 (747956)
01-21-2015 12:04 PM
Reply to: Message 103 by Faith
01-20-2015 10:36 PM


Re: Numbers of martyrs of Rome
Makes a hundred executed by a king seem rather small.
Really? Because most people haven't managed even a single execution.
But just to keep things in perspective, here is your original claim.
Actually I don't think any Protestants burnt any Catholics, Larni, not for being Catholics that's for sure. I think they might have guillotined a few in England for treason against the crown at one time or another though.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Je Suis Charlie
Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by Faith, posted 01-20-2015 10:36 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 115 by Faith, posted 01-21-2015 12:20 PM NoNukes has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 226 of 289 (748871)
01-30-2015 2:02 PM
Reply to: Message 223 by Faith
01-30-2015 4:47 AM


I refuse to read snark and rudeness. Sometimes.
That could not possibly be the reason why you ignored message 17; a message which might well have ended this sorry affair 200 posts ago.

Je Suis Charlie
Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 223 by Faith, posted 01-30-2015 4:47 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 227 by Faith, posted 01-30-2015 5:56 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 228 of 289 (748897)
01-30-2015 9:28 PM
Reply to: Message 227 by Faith
01-30-2015 5:56 PM


This is probably the main reason, he's asking me to do research when he should be supplying the information he wants me to find on my own.
Nonsense. Heathen's post is chock full of information. And given your displayed propensity not to trust anyone, the recommendation that you should check yourself to see if the poster was just making stuff up was well advised.
Quite frankly, I am a bit curious where you get the one sided accounts of things you come up with. It's almost impossible to do any serious look into things and not come up with a broader picture.
If I were a betting man, I'd wager that any concessions you've seem to have made here will be forgotten the next time you need to show that Catholics are evil and Protestants are angels.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Je Suis Charlie
Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 227 by Faith, posted 01-30-2015 5:56 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 229 by Faith, posted 01-30-2015 9:34 PM NoNukes has replied
 Message 231 by Faith, posted 01-30-2015 10:09 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 230 of 289 (748901)
01-30-2015 10:04 PM
Reply to: Message 229 by Faith
01-30-2015 9:34 PM


I saw that admonition to research it and that was more than enough.
I did not say that your motive was not based on what you claimed. I said that not reading the post for your claimed motive was ridiculous.
You are quite wrong to insist on your own interpretation of my motives in any case
I disagree. I was completely correct that you did not avoid reading that post due to snark and rudeness. And I stand by my characterization of the second motive you postulate. Further, you've given equally bogus excuses for avoiding other posts.
I've been collecting information on the Catholic Church for some time, but it needs a lot more research than I've been up to.
As Neil of the Young Ones might have said, "If I had a penny for every time you said that [I had to answer the door] I'd have 5.63". Isn't there already a thread from 2006 or so where you promised us the same information you still "need to research"? Surely someone has written a fubar Catholic bashing account or two that you could have quoted and had ripped to shreds by now.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Je Suis Charlie
Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 229 by Faith, posted 01-30-2015 9:34 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 232 by Faith, posted 01-30-2015 10:11 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 233 of 289 (748904)
01-30-2015 10:17 PM
Reply to: Message 232 by Faith
01-30-2015 10:11 PM


NoNukes writes:
Isn't there already a thread from 2006 or so where you promised us the same information
Faith writes:
Thanks for the lies. That's what they are.
No this doesn't go back to 2006, more like two or three years ago
Lol! 5.63! Stop it! ROFL!
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Je Suis Charlie
Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 232 by Faith, posted 01-30-2015 10:11 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 234 by Faith, posted 01-30-2015 10:27 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 235 of 289 (748906)
01-30-2015 10:44 PM
Reply to: Message 234 by Faith
01-30-2015 10:27 PM


I first heard of Chris Pinto late in 2011 or early 2012
Chris Pinto? Thanks for taking the edge off of my anticipation.
You are right that I'm very slow at getting the work done I keep saying I want to do. It may be beyond me by now.
Let me lighten your load. There is no reason to push this stuff to the top of your to do list on my account. I probably won't find a conspiracy theory from Chris Pinto very compelling.

Je Suis Charlie
Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 234 by Faith, posted 01-30-2015 10:27 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 236 by Faith, posted 01-30-2015 10:56 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 240 of 289 (748979)
02-01-2015 1:46 AM
Reply to: Message 239 by Faith
01-31-2015 2:42 PM


The accusation that he was saying Kurschner had some kind of pro-homosexual position is false
I recommend that anyone who believes Faith's account take a listen to Pinto's words surrounding the slams on Harvard Divinity. It is pretty clear that the entire reasson for even discussing the liberal positions of Harvard was to tar Alan Kurschner with Harvard's reputation. One might possibly make the argument that Chris did not intend the pro-homosexual parts of his Harvard comments to stick to Kurschner, but that would be an extremely charitable reading of Pinto's words.
Chris's own words, in audio, with full context can be found here:
http://www.purposedrivel.com/...s-his-broadcast-removes.html
This he answered clearly, in that excerpt given, but of course such accusations will come up against him because people don't like what he has to say about Rome.
The accusations were very well warranted. Chris comments were directed at Alan because of Alan's critique of Chris' work. But apparently anything anti-Catholicism is okay in your book.

Je Suis Charlie
Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 239 by Faith, posted 01-31-2015 2:42 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 241 by Faith, posted 02-01-2015 2:19 AM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 242 of 289 (749031)
02-01-2015 9:40 AM
Reply to: Message 241 by Faith
02-01-2015 2:19 AM


I heard it the charitable way, NN, because Pinto didn't have any reason to think of Kurschner as homosexual and he knew that James White, with whom Kurschner was associated, denounced gay marriage and gay rights.
The point is Faith, that we can all hear exactly what Chris said. And anyone doing so will find it impossible to take what Chris said in the way you claimed.
I heard that program when it first aired and didn't find anything out of order in Chris' comments.
No surprise there. In any event, reader's have an opportunity to make their own call.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Je Suis Charlie
Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 241 by Faith, posted 02-01-2015 2:19 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 243 by Faith, posted 02-02-2015 11:35 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 244 of 289 (749209)
02-03-2015 12:04 AM
Reply to: Message 243 by Faith
02-02-2015 11:35 PM


My way of hearing it seems open and shut to me, any other way involving reading something into it that isn't there.
Faith, I didn't expect you to change your mind. Nothing can do that. What Pinto said is perfectly acceptable and appropriate to people who form their opinions in the way that you do. The point to providing the link was to allow others an opportunity to reach their own conclusions.

Je Suis Charlie
Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 243 by Faith, posted 02-02-2015 11:35 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 245 by Faith, posted 02-03-2015 12:09 AM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 246 of 289 (749212)
02-03-2015 3:10 AM
Reply to: Message 245 by Faith
02-03-2015 12:09 AM


I still say what I said: If they reach any other conclusion than I did they are reading something into it that isn't there.
Of course you do. But that's just a bit of the great Faith introspection (or lack thereof) we've all come to expect.

Je Suis Charlie
Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 245 by Faith, posted 02-03-2015 12:09 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 247 by Faith, posted 02-03-2015 3:59 AM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 252 of 289 (749267)
02-03-2015 1:53 PM
Reply to: Message 247 by Faith
02-03-2015 3:59 AM


Your opinion must be the right one.
Well, no. That's why I am recommending people listen for themselves.
Couldn't be because I'm right, I suppose. No, that's too much to ask.
Right or wrong, you never acknowledge any other reading but your own. You never seem able to even envision another person's opinion having the slightest basis in reality.
No, I'm not like that.

Je Suis Charlie
Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 247 by Faith, posted 02-03-2015 3:59 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 253 by Faith, posted 02-03-2015 1:57 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 254 of 289 (749293)
02-03-2015 3:37 PM
Reply to: Message 253 by Faith
02-03-2015 1:57 PM


To impute to him an accusation against Kurschner that he didn't even have the knowledge to make at the time is ridiculous.
Sigh. The entire point is that Chris made an unfounded and ridiculous implication and that such was the purpose of his Harvard rant. No 'knowledge' was necessary for such buffoonery.
Yes I'm right and they are wrong.
Sure. Just like always.

Je Suis Charlie
Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 253 by Faith, posted 02-03-2015 1:57 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 256 by Faith, posted 02-03-2015 3:46 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 255 of 289 (749296)
02-03-2015 3:44 PM
Reply to: Message 241 by Faith
02-01-2015 2:19 AM


Now it turns out that Kurschner has revealed himself to be gay
When did this occur? I cannot find any references to such a thing anywhere online.

Je Suis Charlie
Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 241 by Faith, posted 02-01-2015 2:19 AM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 257 by Theodoric, posted 02-03-2015 3:49 PM NoNukes has not replied

  
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