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Author Topic:   Immigration -- what's the big deal?
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 4 of 43 (749868)
02-09-2015 4:55 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by RAZD
02-09-2015 4:02 PM


Seems to me that this program could be revived with some modifications:
Cool. A caste system primarily for brown people who pick our oranges.
For each dependent not capable of work (child\parent\handicapped) you need an able bodied worker to do their work
Would you do a self critique on the math behind this one? Would a mom and dad with say a handicapped infant meet this requirement? One parent and one child that cannot work.
Indentured servitude was a labor system whereby young people paid for their passage
That was just to pay their fare. Indentured servitude should not be the guidelines for immigration policy.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Je Suis Charlie
Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by RAZD, posted 02-09-2015 4:02 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by RAZD, posted 02-10-2015 5:45 AM NoNukes has replied
 Message 10 by PurpleYouko, posted 02-10-2015 9:44 AM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 43 (749869)
02-09-2015 5:02 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Taq
02-09-2015 4:23 PM


What I have been seeing is a lot of xenophobic concerns.
Dang! Speak of the devil...

Je Suis Charlie
Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Taq, posted 02-09-2015 4:23 PM Taq has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 43 (749906)
02-10-2015 8:43 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by RAZD
02-10-2015 5:45 AM


"For all immigrants".
I said, primarily. Was that wrong.
"Not oppressive"
Not for you and I. No.

Je Suis Charlie
Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by RAZD, posted 02-10-2015 5:45 AM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 11 of 43 (749913)
02-10-2015 10:38 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by PurpleYouko
02-10-2015 9:44 AM


Re: indentured servitude still alive and kicking
On another more general note though (not directed at NoNukes), I can't say I'm in favor of making it too easy to immigrate to the USA. That is unless it applies to ALL Immigrants and right now the system clearly favors people who do it illegally.
not directed at NoNukes
I don't mind. But I haven't actually expressed any opinion other than not treating people like crap once we've decided to let them in. I'm not in favor of letting people in legally, but then coming up with rules that keeps their families out.
It cost me over $30,000 for lawyers and legal fees to get green cards for myself and my family so I must admit to some mild annoyance when I hear of unskilled illegals being given amnesty and a free green card/citizenship.
In my opinion, you got slammed. On the other hand, even unskilled labor has value and is in demand here. What would be the point of charging someone $30,000 or making the system so complicated they have to pay a lawyer such a fee, when we apparently want them here so we can pay them crap wages?

Je Suis Charlie
Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by PurpleYouko, posted 02-10-2015 9:44 AM PurpleYouko has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by PurpleYouko, posted 02-10-2015 11:11 AM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied
 Message 14 by RAZD, posted 02-10-2015 1:01 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 15 of 43 (749946)
02-10-2015 2:50 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by RAZD
02-10-2015 1:01 PM


Re: indentured servitude still alive and kicking -- an equal path to citizenship
We don't have a living wage system. Instead we have a system where the labor required to do some tasks is actually valued at more than most people are willing to pay to have the work completed or more than they are willing to pay for the end product. So employers cheat and the illegal workers get cast as the villains that we can treat like crap.
No, I don't need five years worth of lawns mowed and apples picked at sub market pay scales before I allow you to become a citizen.

Je Suis Charlie
Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by RAZD, posted 02-10-2015 1:01 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 18 of 43 (749971)
02-10-2015 5:39 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by PurpleYouko
02-10-2015 9:44 AM


Re: indentured servitude still alive and kicking
Also, did you know that immigrants from the UK are not even eligible for the green card lottery? that is restricted to natives of many 3rd world countries who apparently need it more.
The lottery is for countries that have low immigration rates to the US. The hard line is at 50,000 immigrants per year. Citizens from the following counties were ineligible for the 2014 lottery:
quote:
BANGLADESH, BRAZIL, CANADA, CHINA (mainland-born), COLOMBIA, DOMINICAN REPUBLIC, ECUADOR, EL SALVADOR, HAITI, INDIA, JAMAICA, MEXICO, PAKISTAN, PERU, PHILIPPINES, SOUTH KOREA, UNITED KINGDOM (except Northern Ireland) and its dependent territories, and VIETNAM.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Je Suis Charlie
Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by PurpleYouko, posted 02-10-2015 9:44 AM PurpleYouko has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 19 of 43 (749972)
02-10-2015 5:41 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Jon
02-10-2015 8:43 AM


Re: The Big Deal is that Jon hyperventilates paranoia ... Again
Makes my job easier, I guess.
What job is that?

Je Suis Charlie
Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Jon, posted 02-10-2015 8:43 AM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Jon, posted 02-10-2015 8:25 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(3)
Message 31 of 43 (750233)
02-12-2015 11:13 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by Jon
02-10-2015 8:25 PM


Re: The Big Deal is that Jon hyperventilates paranoia ... Again
Jon writes:
Pointing out that RAZD lives in a fantasy world where all of his half-cooked ideas solve any problem imaginable.
Interesting...
Jon writes:
That's it? If you want to be a U.S. citizen to make it easier to fly planes into buildings then that should be just fine?
I submit that statements such as the one above don't really require much of a response. They tell us a lot more about you than they do RAZD.

Je Suis Charlie
Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Jon, posted 02-10-2015 8:25 PM Jon has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 38 of 43 (750246)
02-12-2015 12:20 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by New Cat's Eye
02-12-2015 11:52 AM


You've totally lost me.
Immigrants comprise about 13% of the current US population. We're probably not going to send the army after them with either tomahawks or Tomahawk missiles.

Je Suis Charlie
Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-12-2015 11:52 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-12-2015 12:24 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 40 of 43 (750252)
02-12-2015 12:27 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by New Cat's Eye
02-12-2015 12:24 PM


When was the last time you were a brown guy wandering around southern Arizona without your papers?
How's that working out in Arizona.

Je Suis Charlie
Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-12-2015 12:24 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-12-2015 1:22 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 42 of 43 (750329)
02-13-2015 1:06 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by New Cat's Eye
02-12-2015 1:22 PM


NoNukes writes:
How's that working out in Arizona.
Cat Sci writes:
I dunno, I was in Scottsdale a little while ago, it was really nice.
The reason for asking was that when the SC looked at Arizona's immigration laws, they approved this final portion on the basis that it would not devolve into asking 'brown people' to show their papers.
I'm not sure why I'm telling this story, other than it was a weird situation for me that I was reminded of when you mentioned how Arizona was doing.
Not sure what the point is myself. Here in NC, Hispanic people are often called Mexicans in less than polite discussion. On occasion I've asked how they know that the subjects of the conversation are Mexicans, and it turns out that Mexican applies to every brown Hispanic unless you know his nationality. Is that a real good assumption for North Carolina?
Not sure what's wrong with speaking Spanish to an Hispanic anyway. Your customer was an idiot.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Je Suis Charlie
Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-12-2015 1:22 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by Tempe 12ft Chicken, posted 02-13-2015 4:00 PM NoNukes has not replied

  
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