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Author | Topic: God is evil if He has miracles and does not use them. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Stile Member Posts: 4295 From: Ontario, Canada Joined: |
ringo writes: We have to look at it from the human viewpoint: God can't please the rape victim and the rapist at the same time - not to mention the people who think she should be raped and the people who think she shouldn't. Exactly. So why does God decide to side with the rapist? If God setup free will the way it exists today... why are rapists allowed to remove the free will of rape victims? As a society, we deem this wrong. We create police forces to try and prevent this from happening as much as possible. We currently don't think it's right for someone to decide someone else's fate. Therefore, when someone decides to do this, we deem it reasonable to prevent them. What's the difference between a police force stopping a rape, and God stopping a rape?
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Larni Member Posts: 4000 From: Liverpool Joined: |
What's the difference between a police force stopping a rape, and God stopping a rape? God has never been shown to have stopped a rape.The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer. -Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53 The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286 Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134
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Stile Member Posts: 4295 From: Ontario, Canada Joined: |
Jon writes: No it doesn't. It was conceived of by humans, written by humans, is read by humans, and understood by humans. It has nothing to do with animals or any intelligence other than humans. You seem to keep claiming this, despite all the evidence that animals do indeed exhibit an understanding of evil.But, fair enough, I don't care to continue this vein, it is inconsequential anyway. He should grant people whatever they want and keep them from what they don't want? Are we talking about gods or puppets? How do you turn my very specific, unique example into "whatever they want" and "puppets?" I think you're thinking about something else.
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Stile writes: No, that is a fine explanation.It simply means that God does not care. Which is an explanation I offered in the beginning. Yet you offer no evidence or justification for your belief.
Stile writes: By God "caring" I mean the basic definition:-God is involved in our lives (our society, our culture, our feelings, our emotions of the time) -God wants to help (again, help in the way our society, our culture, our feelings and our emotions of the time would suggest). But your definition is simply the same silly one adopted by the Fundies, that somehow "our society, our feelings, our emotions of the time" are those of the God; that you are special. Why is one society's feelings and emotions superior or preferred to some other society's feeling and emotions?
Stile writes: I agree with you that if God doesn't care, He wouldn't do anything. There yet again you simply post misrepresentations. You cannot agree with me on a point I have never made. Edited by jar, : hit wrong keyAnyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Stile Member Posts: 4295 From: Ontario, Canada Joined: |
Larni writes: God has never been shown to have stopped a rape. That's true, the police certainly do exist
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Stile writes: If evil is defined by the society, and God does something evil as defined by that society... then God is evil as determined by that society. You are correct that this in no way implies that God is somehow universally evil... but the entire concept of "universally evil" does not exist when claiming that evil is as defined by the society of the time. It doesn't mean anything anymore.. the only thing that means anything, then, is how that society defines evil. And, if God is evil according to that society, then God is "evil." More utter nonsense and total misrepresentation as well as being totally inane. If God is evil according to some society that does not mean that god is evil to any honest and thinking person. It means that that society considers that God to be evil.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Stile Member Posts: 4295 From: Ontario, Canada Joined: |
jar writes: But your definition is simply the same silly one adopted by the Fundies, that somehow "our society, our feelings, our emotions of the time" are those of the God; that you are special. Oh, I think I see what you're thinking, now. No, I do not think that God should think God is evil. God can think whatever He wants to.All I'm doing is holding God to the same standard that I would hold my neighbor to... that I would judge God as evil. That's all. Why is one society's feelings and emotions superior or preferred to some other society's feeling and emotions? I never said they were.I'm just saying what our current society's feelings and emotions conclude about God. You're free to not agree with society, as anyone and everyone else is. Even if society didn't agree with me, I could easily frame my argument as: IF God exists.IF God is all powerful. IF "evil" includes not helping others when you're quite capable of helping them at no risk or loss of resources to yourself. IF God does not prevent rapes. THEN God is evil. Whether or not it applies to our current society, or any other one, or for all time, or just a split second... is all irrelevant blather.
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Stile Member Posts: 4295 From: Ontario, Canada Joined: |
jar writes: If God is evil according to some society that does not mean that god is evil to any honest and thinking person. It means that that society considers that God to be evil. Absolutely true.Unless, of course, that honest and thinking person is a part of the society that judges God as evil.
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Jon Inactive Member |
His book shows his evil easily enough without our hypotheticals. What book?Love your enemies!
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
AZPaul3 writes:
Read it again. The book depicts Him as good. You're just superimposing your subjective ideas of "evil" on it.
His book shows his evil easily enough without our hypotheticals.
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Stile writes:
The answer to that question is: Not necessarily because of either good or evil.
So why does God decide to side with the rapist? Stile writes:
So you want God to selectively remove the free will of the rapist instead of the free will of the victim?
If God setup free will the way it exists today... why are rapists allowed to remove the free will of rape victims? Stile writes:
As a society, we deem saturated fats to be a "bad" thing. Yet as individuals we consume them avidly. Group-think is fickle at best. I don't see it as a reliable gauge for "good" and "evil".
As a society, we deem this wrong. Stile writes:
Maybe it's the price. Maybe you just can't afford God's salary.
What's the difference between a police force stopping a rape, and God stopping a rape?
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
The whole problem with this whimsical approach to spiritual interference from deities is that you lump God and satan into one result.
God is Spirit. There is only one(1) Holy Spirit. Humans are flesh(mind, will, emotions) and can be filled with the Spirit. satan operates as an antithesis. We basically can be filled with the Spirit(when we are humble and reverential, allowing the Spirit to fully live in us and through us. We can also choose to allow our flesh(mind/will/emotions to manifest. The rapist is freely choosing his flesh. He allows the twisted perversity of the addiction/mental illness to manifest and he purposefully violates the victim. God is only responsible inasmuch as He initially allowed freewill and satan to exist(as well as our decision to feed our flesh/illness/addiction.) The fact of the matter is that due to freewill, evil exists and manifests through humans. Hurricanes are not evil, nor our Tsunamis...they are simple actions of nature. One could argue that God is evil for allowing potential pain and death to result, but I doubt you would have enough of a case(nor sharp enough mind) to successfully challenge Him in court about it. Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo It's easy to see the speck in somebody else's ideas - unless it's blocked by the beam in your own.~Ringo If a savage stops believing in his wooden god, it does not mean that there is no God only that God is not wooden.(Leo Tolstoy)
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Correct.
... you lump God and satan into one result. Phat writes:
You contradict yourself. Which is it? Free choice or addiction/mental illness?
The rapist is freely choosing his flesh. He allows the twisted perversity of the addiction/mental illness to manifest and he purposefully violates the victim. Phat writes:
And if the rapist was your judge, would you win or lose?
One could argue that God is evil for allowing potential pain and death to result, but I doubt you would have enough of a case(nor sharp enough mind) to successfully challenge Him in court about it.
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Stile Member Posts: 4295 From: Ontario, Canada Joined: |
Double post, duplicated below.
Edited by Stile, : Double post, duplicated below.
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Stile Member Posts: 4295 From: Ontario, Canada Joined: |
ringo writes: So you want God to selectively remove the free will of the rapist instead of the free will of the victim? Uh... yeah.Just like we have police to do the same thing. ringo writes: Stile writes: What's the difference between a police force stopping a rape, and God stopping a rape? Maybe it's the price. Maybe you just can't afford God's salary. Sure, maybe. And, of course, maybe not.That's exactly why the question exists... because we have no reasonable answer. I'm not saying I have an answer.I'm also saying that God may have a satisfactory answer that I'm not aware of. I'm just saying that your answers are, as of yet, unsatisfactory.
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