Earth science curriculum tailored to fit wavering fundamentalists

edge writes:our experience here is any indication, the task is insurmountable. In 99.9% of cases, religious belief trumps scientific evidence and reasoned interpretation.

I was trying to figure out if the supercritical water method would also sort the dissolved content in the same way.

Being one of the 0.1%, I don't disagree with that at all. I happen to have several family members here who seem particular vulnerable to truth right now so I am hoping for a bit better odds in this specific case. The important thing to me is to be well prepared. When someone is vulnerable to truth and asks an idiot (or even a well meaning ignorant) an important question, a nonsensical answer can really turn them off.

edge writes:It would not. Just look at the flow directions. In the Hovland model the continuity is vertical and would result in a vertical zonation along structural pathways. In the evaporative model the continuity is lateral with zonation being in lateral directions controlled by stratigraphic processes.

So I've been studying a lot and also learning more about the specific positions that my YEC family are holding and why. (remember, I've been gone and greatly out of touch with them for near 40 years.) I'm starting to get a handle on the sorts of things I need to focus on to both keep their attention and address their concerns and biases.
I've learned is that this younger crowd is somewhat open to the concept of an old earth and old universe — but old life is an issue for them. There are essentially willing to say that Ok, the sun and stars were here for millions, billions, whatever. The earth could have also been here, but as a lifeless blank. This is different from where everyone was when I left which was hard line It all arrived 6,000 years ago. Now, it's more like We'll give you that other stuff, but LIFE started no more than 6,000 (or so) years ago, it was created in 6 literal days and the Noahic flood definitely covered all and killed everything not on the ark around 4,000 years ago. They have also made a little 'progress' on the everything was created just as it is seen now position. As one of them told me a couple days ago I believe in adaptation, but not evolution. (hmmmmm). They did make it clear to me that every bit of life, down to the most basic forms were created all in the 6 days.One thing they are big on is that there was definitely no death before 'the fall' of Adam and Eve. Any fossil found was placed after the fall. Combine this belief with them accepting the possibility of an old universe and a barren 'blank' earth before creation and you have a situation where it's not productive for me to focus on anything in the realm of astronomy (unless it's used to demonstrate the constants). It also won't pay to be trying to date layers below where the lowest fossil life is found.So, my task is to create presentations that can as simply and reliably as possible show two things:
1: the evidence is clear that the layers at and above the lowest fossil bearing layers (precambrian?) could not be young.
2: the evidence shows that a Noahic flood didn't happen.That's all.In another later post I'll get into the sorts of things I'm thinking of focusing on and get suggestions.Thanks
JB

(Ignorance alert!!) For instance, I would think one could tell by looking at the cooled lava around a volcano and determine to a great degree of certainty if it was an underwater eruption or not. In fact I would think there would be several ways to tell.

I know that how things cool (slow or fast) changes how they look under a microscope.

Also lava can flow for miles with little fall in the open air, where with rapid water cooling it would not be able to do that.

As you can see these beds are almost pure salt and the muds or clays are simply contamination.

I know that how things cool (slow or fast) changes how they look under a microscope. Also lava can flow for miles with little fall in the open air, where with rapid water cooling it would not be able to do that.

Stile writes:I would be surprised if you haven't received any questions/ideas along the lines of morality and spirituality basically being defunct without The Church.

If you're passionate about focusing on the science side of things, please just ignore this post.

Dr Adequate writes:Afterthought: this can't even be the case even with underwater volcanism without sea-floor spreading. Otherwise incipient volcanic islands would basically be shaped like hollow pillars, wouldn't they?

To make it clear, I didn't mean to imply that the bands in the photo would be pure mud. Some of them just might be, but they are much more likely muddy salt, or possibly salty mud.

That was my uneducated thought as well but I wasn't sure - things that happen exposed to air on the surface would almost certainly look different.(Ignorance alert!!) For instance, I would think one could tell by looking at the cooled lava around a volcano and determine to a great degree of certainty if it was an underwater eruption or not. In fact I would think there would be several ways to tell. I know that how things cool (slow or fast) changes how they look under a microscope. Also lava can flow for miles with little fall in the open air, where with rapid water cooling it would not be able to do that. Of course I know shit about volcanos, so that's mere supposition on my part based on other things I do know.

In water and in air, it'll be basalt. I don't know if the difference in cooling rates is so different as to make underwater basalt consistently more fine-grained, so that we could use that as a test --- if anyone knows that that's the case, please set me right.

ThinAirDesigns writes:Oh, that topic comes up quite often and in fact is literally one of the BIG reasons that I have any credibility at all with them.

I know that sounds opposite of what you would expect, but these kids have been told day in and day out how evil and selfish and hurtful and dangerous non-believers are.

Along comes me who to them seems unusually kind and thoughtful and understanding and thus the entire model they were raised with seems in doubt to them.