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Author Topic:   Chariots of God (Scripture & Photo Examined)
ScottRP
Member (Idle past 147 days)
Posts: 515
From: Tustin, California USA
Joined: 02-26-2015


Message 181 of 1310 (751691)
03-04-2015 10:38 PM
Reply to: Message 175 by AZPaul3
03-04-2015 5:09 PM


This scripture refers to the world being unable to visually identify the Holy Spirit and His acts. Lies are being told about Him because the world lacks spiritual discernment. There are many testimonies in the bible of people seeing the Holy Spirit.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 175 by AZPaul3, posted 03-04-2015 5:09 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 184 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-04-2015 11:37 PM ScottRP has not replied
 Message 191 by AZPaul3, posted 03-05-2015 6:57 AM ScottRP has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 182 of 1310 (751692)
03-04-2015 10:48 PM
Reply to: Message 180 by ScottRP
03-04-2015 10:17 PM


Re: many are col;d but few are frozen.
ScottRP writes:
Photographs!
Too funny. You are such a great example of why Biblical Christians can only be laughed at.
How is that evidence?
The Cottingley Fairies were photographs taken in 1917 by a 16 year old girl and 9 year old girl.
Now where is the proof that there is a spirit or the image of god in any of your photographs? Can't you do at least as good a fake as two little girls from almost 100 years ago?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 180 by ScottRP, posted 03-04-2015 10:17 PM ScottRP has not replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1940 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 183 of 1310 (751695)
03-04-2015 11:16 PM
Reply to: Message 179 by jar
03-04-2015 7:39 PM


Re: after the fact nonsense.
As usual support from me.
Luke chapter 24.
Readers can decide if they choose to trust jar's opinion of Jesus' teaching.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 179 by jar, posted 03-04-2015 7:39 PM jar has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 184 of 1310 (751698)
03-04-2015 11:37 PM
Reply to: Message 181 by ScottRP
03-04-2015 10:38 PM


This scripture refers to the world being unable to visually identify the Holy Spirit and His acts.
And here you come with a photograph of what you're telling us is the Spirit and you're claiming that you have visually identified one of His acts.
Lies are being told about Him because the world lacks spiritual discernment.
Then we explain what it really is a photo of, and you lie to us and tell us that you're telling the truth and that we don't have the powers that you do.
You don't even know that you're being tricked by the devil. All he had to do was tell you that he was the Spirit of God.
You fell for it because you lack spiritual discernment.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 181 by ScottRP, posted 03-04-2015 10:38 PM ScottRP has not replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1940 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 185 of 1310 (751702)
03-05-2015 12:16 AM


Ezekiel's vision can be approached if we go back to Genesis 1 through 3.
The climax of these three chapters is God placing the created man before the tree of life. The whole Bible is needed to ascertain that the tree of life God Himself entering into man. The tree of life is a symbol of God presented to in the form of food that man may take God into himself.
God created man in order to get INTO man. And God depicted in the form of food - the tree of life, is a symbol of this profound truth. What we eat gets into our body to become part of us. And God's eternal purpose is to dispense Himself into man just like man eating food.
Already you can see that the utter oneness of the Divine and the Human was on the Creator's heart from the beginning of man's creation. This will become very important as we get into the details of the symbolism of Ezekiel's vision.
The point of this post is that the vision of Ezekiel is related to the original purpose of God in, in God wanting to be so intimately united with humanity that the two - God and man are incorporated organically into a profound mingling. When man lives, he lives out God. When God lives, He lives through man.
The eternal plan of God is seen again in Ezekiel's strange vision.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1940 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 186 of 1310 (751704)
03-05-2015 12:44 AM


When man disobeyed God in the fall of man, the tree of life was concealed and encompassed by the cherubim. This creature, a cherubim guarded the way to the tree of life with a flaming sword. Here we see God barring the way to the tree life from the fallen Adam and Eve.
And Jehovah God said, Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil, and now, lest he put forth his hand take also from the tree of life and eat and live forever -
Therefore Jehovah God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, ... So He drove the man out, and at the east of the garden of Eden He placed the cherubim and a flaming sword which turned in every direction to guard the way to the tree of life.
The barrier against man partaking of God as divine life is threefold.
The cherubim represent the glory of God. Man has fallen short of the glory of God and is excluded from receiving God into him.
The flame of the sword represents the holiness of God. Man has fallen short of the holiness of God and is therefore excluded.
The sword represents the righteousness of God. Man has fallen short of the righteousness of God and is therefore excluded from taking in God.
Adam is now united with God's enemy, poisoned, corrupted, and being filled up with death. Adam and Eve have fallen from an innocent state into a state at enmity with thier Creator. God has a threefold demand upon Adam and Eve which they cannot fulfill. They come short of the glory, the holiness, and the righteousness of God.
God's plan to enter into man as "food" that God and man may live an mingled life in union is bared. But in the rest of the Bible it is through the redemption of Christ, man gains again access to the tree of life. In the rest of the revelation of Scripture the redeeming work of Christ opens the way for man to again, to take the tree of life as his food.
You will notice that I will not spend inordinate time to prove to some skeptics that Jesus Christ is central to the whole Old Testament and New Testament. It is going to be submitted as a given for the most part. Those who cannot take it just won't be able to take it.
In the Bible's final book we see the way to the tree of life opened to all those who are qualified to enter into the eternal city New Jerusalem.
Blessed are those who wash their robes that they may have right to the tree of life and may enter into the gates of the city. (Rev. 22:14)
They have washed their robes in the blood of the Redeemer the Son of God.
... These are those who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. (Rev. 7:14)
That means that they have partaken of the redemptive salvation of Jesus Christ. His shed blood upon Calvary's cross has redeemed them, justified them, and atoned for their sins for eternity. They are justified to come back to God's eternal purpose to dispense His life and nature into them as the tree of life.
The cherubim, the sword, the flame of Genesis 3 will all become important to entering into the significance of Ezekiel's vision.

Replies to this message:
 Message 187 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-05-2015 12:59 AM jaywill has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 187 of 1310 (751708)
03-05-2015 12:59 AM
Reply to: Message 186 by jaywill
03-05-2015 12:44 AM


Ezekiel's vision can be approached if we go back to Genesis 1 through 3.
The climax of these three chapters is God placing the created man before the tree of life. The whole Bible is needed to ascertain that the tree of life God Himself entering into man. The tree of life is a symbol of God presented to in the form of food that man may take God into himself.
God created man in order to get INTO man. And God depicted in the form of food - the tree of life, is a symbol of this profound truth. What we eat gets into our body to become part of us. And God's eternal purpose is to dispense Himself into man just like man eating food.
Already you can see that the utter oneness of the Divine and the Human was on the Creator's heart from the beginning of man's creation. This will become very important as we get into the details of the symbolism of Ezekiel's vision.
The point of this post is that the vision of Ezekiel is related to the original purpose of God in, in God wanting to be so intimately united with humanity that the two - God and man are incorporated organically into a profound mingling. When man lives, he lives out God. When God lives, He lives through man.
The eternal plan of God is seen again in Ezekiel's strange vision.
and
When man disobeyed God in the fall of man, the tree of life was concealed and encompassed by the cherubim. This creature, a cherubim guarded the way to the tree of life with a flaming sword. Here we see God barring the way to the tree life from the fallen Adam and Eve.
And Jehovah God said, Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil, and now, lest he put forth his hand take also from the tree of life and eat and live forever -
Therefore Jehovah God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, ... So He drove the man out, and at the east of the garden of Eden He placed the cherubim and a flaming sword which turned in every direction to guard the way to the tree of life.
The barrier against man partaking of God as divine life is threefold.
The cherubim represent the glory of God. Man has fallen short of the glory of God and is excluded from receiving God into him.
The flame of the sword represents the holiness of God. Man has fallen short of the holiness of God and is therefore excluded.
The sword represents the righteousness of God. Man has fallen short of the righteousness of God and is therefore excluded from taking in God.
Adam is now united with God's enemy, poisoned, corrupted, and being filled up with death. Adam and Eve have fallen from an innocent state into a state at enmity with thier Creator. God has a threefold demand upon Adam and Eve which they cannot fulfill. They come short of the glory, the holiness, and the righteousness of God.
God's plan to enter into man as "food" that God and man may live an mingled life in union is bared. But in the rest of the Bible it is through the redemption of Christ, man gains again access to the tree of life. In the rest of the revelation of Scripture the redeeming work of Christ opens the way for man to again, to take the tree of life as his food.
You will notice that I will not spend inordinate time to prove to some skeptics that Jesus Christ is central to the whole Old Testament and New Testament. It is going to be submitted as a given for the most part. Those who cannot take it just won't be able to take it.
In the Bible's final book we see the way to the tree of life opened to all those who are qualified to enter into the eternal city New Jerusalem.
Blessed are those who wash their robes that they may have right to the tree of life and may enter into the gates of the city. (Rev. 22:14)
They have washed their robes in the blood of the Redeemer the Son of God.
... These are those who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. (Rev. 7:14)
That means that they have partaken of the redemptive salvation of Jesus Christ. His shed blood upon Calvary's cross has redeemed them, justified them, and atoned for their sins for eternity. They are justified to come back to God's eternal purpose to dispense His life and nature into them as the tree of life.
The cherubim, the sword, the flame of Genesis 3 will all become important to entering into the significance of Ezekiel's vision.
Okay, so does the following picture show, as the author of the OP described, "a spirit in one of God's chariots...also known as Ezekiel's wheels"?
And does the scripture they quoted in this thread support that assessment?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 186 by jaywill, posted 03-05-2015 12:44 AM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 189 by jaywill, posted 03-05-2015 1:14 AM New Cat's Eye has replied
 Message 211 by ScottRP, posted 03-06-2015 7:15 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1940 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 188 of 1310 (751713)
03-05-2015 1:09 AM


God presenting Himself as food is picked up many times in the Bible. I draw special attention to Jesus the Son of God doing this.
The Lord Jesus told us in John 6 that He came as the bread of life, and that we should take Him as our food.
"He who eats Me shall also live because of Me" (John 6:57).
We can take Jesus Christ into us as our "food." This taking in of Christ is the beginning of God getting into man with His own life and His nature for an "organic" union of the Divine with our humanity.
By taking Christ in as good eventually the takers will bear His image. By having His life, His nature, and His image, we all will be built up together. We will move together with God and God will live through us. This union will flower out into an utterly harmonious coordination of God and man rolling forth the will of God out of eternity through the universe.
In this union there is full sight and insight. As the wheels are full of eyes we will see that in this mingling of God and man there is extensive sight. We can see why there is a universe and why man is in it. And we can see the eternal purpose of God.
For God created all things FOR His will -
You are worthy our Lord and God, to receive the glory and the honor and the power, for You have created all things, and because of Your will they were, and were created. (Rev. 4:11)
God created all things FOR His will. And His will is to be dispensed into man for the mingling of God and man. He remains the Source and the Head of this union. But He gains a Body which is a mingling of divinity and humanity.
This oneness was on God's heart all through the Old Testament. This is why the vision of this divine coordination is seen in the Old Testament book of the prophet Ezekiel. It we on His heart with Israel and He expressed His desire of God / Human incorporation to the prophet.
Then briefly, In John 17:21, the Lord Jesus prayed explicitly for this union -
"That they all may be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You., that they also may be in Us; that the world may believe that You have sent Me.
And the glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one, even as We are one.
I in them, and You in Me, that they may be perfected into one, that they world may know that You have sent Me and have loved them even as You have loved Me" (John 17:21-23)
What did Jesus Christ mean in this prayer to His Father? He simply meant that all the redeemed sinners must be built up together. God builds Himself into them and they are built up in oneness with one another for an expression of God dwelling in man. This prayer is a mighty petition which God cannot fail to answer. The answer in full is in Revelation 21 and 22 when we see the New Jerusalem as the mingling of God and man.
Both in John's Gospel and John's Revelation, we can see that all the redeemed ones are built up together into one city. And the glory of God is manifested from within this corporate entity. The divine administration also has its capital in this city within the new universe.
In that city, all the saved are all one, not just in word or in doctrine, but in building. All the saved human beings must be built up with one another in life. Then God will have a city, the New Jerusalem.
This has been on God's heart from eternity past. And even in Ezekiel He discloses in mysterious terms to Israel, that He is ever moving towards this eternal goal.

Replies to this message:
 Message 190 by Faith, posted 03-05-2015 1:14 AM jaywill has replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1940 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 189 of 1310 (751714)
03-05-2015 1:14 AM
Reply to: Message 187 by New Cat's Eye
03-05-2015 12:59 AM


I don't care anything for the photo. I will not be giving any attention to the photo but to the Scripture.
I thought the first illustration was pretty good to visualize some of the details of Ezekiel's visions.
The issues about seeing the Holy Spirit in a photograph I regarded foolish, sensational and I won't be paying attention to it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 187 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-05-2015 12:59 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 194 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-05-2015 9:57 AM jaywill has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1443 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 190 of 1310 (751715)
03-05-2015 1:14 AM
Reply to: Message 188 by jaywill
03-05-2015 1:09 AM


I haven't been spending much time on your posts here but you do seem to be making some interesting observations. Do you have a particular theological frame of reference for these concepts?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 188 by jaywill, posted 03-05-2015 1:09 AM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 193 by jaywill, posted 03-05-2015 9:38 AM Faith has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 191 of 1310 (751724)
03-05-2015 6:57 AM
Reply to: Message 181 by ScottRP
03-04-2015 10:38 PM


This scripture refers to the world being unable to visually identify the Holy Spirit and His acts. Lies are being told about Him because the world lacks spiritual discernment. There are many testimonies in the bible of people seeing the Holy Spirit.
That doesn't work here, Scott. You are not of the Bible. You are of the World.
The World, which includes you, and in this instance is specifically you, is unable to visually identify the Holy Spirit and His acts. "the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him." So says your holy scripture.
Is this wrong?
Unless you are saying you are not of this world? Maybe Cat Sci is right. Are you djinn?
Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 181 by ScottRP, posted 03-04-2015 10:38 PM ScottRP has not replied

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 734 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


(1)
Message 192 of 1310 (751731)
03-05-2015 9:12 AM


Post 192 here, just to comment on hew many photons have died needlessly in arguing over a far lesser question than "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin." And that's not even those other poor little photons that were scattered by dust particles to set it all off.

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1940 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 193 of 1310 (751732)
03-05-2015 9:38 AM
Reply to: Message 190 by Faith
03-05-2015 1:14 AM


I have gotten a great deal of help from Christian teachers with deeper experience. And if you are interested in where I derive some of the matters I share here, go to
The Life Study of Ezekiel by Witness Lee -
Titles A-Z | LSM Online Publications
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 190 by Faith, posted 03-05-2015 1:14 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 195 by Faith, posted 03-05-2015 11:05 AM jaywill has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 194 of 1310 (751737)
03-05-2015 9:57 AM
Reply to: Message 189 by jaywill
03-05-2015 1:14 AM


I don't care anything for the photo.
Um, that's kinda the whole point of the thread.
The issues about seeing the Holy Spirit in a photograph I regarded foolish, sensational and I won't be paying attention to it.
So you're just going to hijack the thread and preach about what you want to talk about rather than discussing the topic? You're talking about food in a thread on spirit orbs?
Why would you do that? Why not just start your own topic?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 189 by jaywill, posted 03-05-2015 1:14 AM jaywill has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1443 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 195 of 1310 (751742)
03-05-2015 11:05 AM
Reply to: Message 193 by jaywill
03-05-2015 9:38 AM


Witness Lee
I have gotten a great deal of help from Christian teachers with deeper experience. And if you are interested in where I derive some of the matters I share here, go to
The Life Study of Ezekiel by Witness Lee -
Titles A-Z | LSM Online Publications
Thank you very much, very interesting. I love Watchman Nee, who is often associated with Witness Lee, but always found Lee to be strange and questionable. However, what you've been saying is interesting so I'll do some more reading. Thanks again.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 193 by jaywill, posted 03-05-2015 9:38 AM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 196 by jaywill, posted 03-05-2015 2:33 PM Faith has replied

  
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