Chariots of God (Scripture & Photo Examined)

It is actually a spirit in a chariot of God. A very small version of Ezekiel's wheels. Remember, what Ezekiel saw appeared with Father God and the Seraphim and would have been much more. The photograph suggest that the whole Vision of God is real. Any other views of this vision is welcome. Christians should not be against evidence, no matter how small, leading to the reality of this vision.Edited by ScottRP, : No reason given.Edited by ScottRP, : No reason given.

I'm ok with you discussing Ezekiel's Vision and not the photograph. After all, that is what this thread is about.Edited by ScottRP, : No reason given.

I agree with you that I assumed too much.I actually am tempted to go through it sentence by sentence.
But I am not sure you would be any happier.You see your reaction was completely different from that of Faith's. Faith had some backround, I think, to realize that some, at least, "interesting" things were being communicated. Faith asked for some frame work. There was something in Faith's understanding to at least work with and build upon.You on the other hand appear absolutely clueless about anything I wrote.
Now I don't necessarily hold that against you. But it is a problem.Some of us here have some spiritual experience upon which to build.
Some of us here have none. Worse yet, some actively oppose the validity of ANY spiritual experience.But you are right. I cannot assume all readers have any backround spiritually upon which to ascertain my comments.I MAY just go through that bewildering paragraph or two line by line to clarify. But I am not sure you'll be any more receptive. It is no secret that this website is probably predominantly frequented by anti-theist types. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

"Does it mean anything?" asks Theodoric.
Well, I will attempt to comment on what I mean line by line.Perhaps, Theodoric will be none the more happy or complain that this or that is very off topic. I think most people would agree that the vision of Ezekiel is mysterious.
Of these there may be those who:A.) Think it mysterious and meaningless.
B.) Think it mysterious yet meaningfulI am of the latter ones. It is mysterious yet meaningful.
There are a number of such mysterious visions in the Bible.Some of the mystifying matters, I think I can explain. And the explanations are based on a principle that the Bible interprets itself. Also this book belongs to Christians. Of course by Christians I do not mean "Gentiles". But it is also true that to ISRAEL was the book of Ezekiel first written. This is a topic off in itself. The vision shows a kind of "technology". It is a kind of heavenly technology involving the glory of God and beings created by God. And there are the wheels.So the vision involves a kind of strange technology of living creatures and one above them with the appearance of a man. It should be obvious that the whole technology is tuned to move together in great coordination.This is a brief word to say the COORDINATION that is being symbolically communicated is that COORDINATION sought BY GOD with His people. FIrstly, He sought it with the CREATED man. Then He sought it with the CALLED man - that is the Abrahamic called people - Israel.Does anyone understand ? God seeks to move with man in coordination. God seeks to accomplish His will with cooperation on the human side.Wheels, everyone knows, are for MOVING an apparatus of some type forward. The WHEELS of the vision speak of God moving His will. Rather than God's will being static it is a matter of Him moving through history. The WHEELS with the Spirit of God in them are related to God's will and plan MOVING through the earth and history.IE. From, let us say, the calling of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, the Egyptian bondage and Exodus, plus the conquest of Canaan and the establishing of God's city with God's temple was a matter of God MOVING through time and space to accomplish His will.The WHEELS related to the MOVING forward of God's will.
Of course there are many many obstacles to God moving.
There are forces against God's moving.
But the whole apparatus is flexible and moves in any direction that is necessary to move in. And it does so with lightening speed if needed.The mysterious vision is therefore related to the entire Bible. Because in the entire Bible God is MOVING in His plan and will through time and space. See above. The whole apparatus was called the glory of God. That is God manifested, God is invisible. When He is manifested that is the glory of God. These are spiritual matters.Of course Israel was quite out of sync with Yahweh in the book of Ezekiel. The discrepancy between God's people and God was quite wide. But God will not give up and cannot be defeated.Does this communicate?
Though the prophet speaks to the Israelites in exile through divine discipline, to Babylon, still on God's heart is this cooperation. On God's heart is this eternal purpose to move in coordination and harmonious cooperation with His people.No comment above here was intended to be off the topic of Ezekiel's vision. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Nope, you're wrong. The photograph is of a piece of dust.Since all you're doing is repeating yourself instead of offering any argument or evidence for your claim, then there's really nothing more for me to do to participate in this discussion.

As a Christian, I accept that Ezekiel's Wheel has meaning even if I cannot discern it myself. In fact, I don't claim to understand the vision. But quite frankly, this postulating of yours is at least as speculative as everything else I've read on the topic, including the OP. Even the commentaries I've read on this subject are all over the map.If you find inspiration from the text, so be it. But the likelihood that you are anymore correct than the next guy seems to me to be very poor. I appreciate the sharing, but I'd suggest that your posturing about your own understanding is misplaced.

I keep getting distracted from reading Witness Lee's study of Ezekiel, which I believe is the basis for what you are saying here, but I hope to get back to it. Just as a response to what you are saying about the strange chariot of the vision, however, I have to say that it isn't particularly convincing. The best I can do with it on my own is say that it must represent something about the nature of God, but beyond that I have no clue, and I don't see where you are getting anything about God's plan of uniting with humanity from the vision. Maybe Witness Lee will give me a better understanding.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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As a Christian, I accept that Ezekiel's Wheel has meaning even if I cannot discern it myself. In fact, I don't claim to understand the vision. But quite frankly, this postulating of yours is at least as speculative as everything else I've read on the topic, including the OP. Even the commentaries I've read on this subject are all over the map.

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Surely we do see God Almighty on His throne in the vision - "And above the expanse that was over their hears was the likeness of a THRONE, like the appearance of a sapphire stone: and upon the likeness of the throne was One in appearance like a man, above it." (1:26) I think we are right to assume something of God and God's nature IS being manifested. But we have here not only something of God. We have FOUR living creatures also.The four living creatures are reckoned not as individuals but as a group. And that is a very coordinated group. Both with themselves and with God upon the throne above the unit of the four creatures move in utter coordination. For this reason we should see something of God and His creatures moving together in utter coordination.The number four is recognized by many as pointing to God's creatures.
As there ar four living creatures in Ezekiel we also have four living creatures in Revelation.The four creatures are a corporate expression of the man above them on the throne.
And the four living creatures each have the likeness of a man. "And this was their appearance. They had the likeness of a man" (1:5) The chief creature on God's heart with which He seeks unity is man (Genesis 1:26; Psalm 8:4-8) Man is the means for God to manifest His glory.
Man is the means for God to move on the earth.
When Adam fell out of fellowship with God, God's move was hindered.
The coordination was interrupted as God had ordained in creation.But God has not given up His desire to manifest His glory through man and move on earth in coordination with man.God's throne is the seat of His administration. Yet the throne MOVES upon and the utter coordination of the four creatures below it. Are we getting a glimpse yet of the Divine / Human coordination displayed in the mysterious vision ?Each of the living creatures has four faces. "As for the likeness of their faces, they had the face of a man; and the four of them had the face of a lion on the right side, and the four of them had the face of an ox on the left side, and the four of them had the face of an eagle." ( 1:10) I would ask you to compare this firstly with the four living creatures in the book of Revelation for similarity. Revelation 4:7 - "And the first living creature was like a lion, and the second living creature like a calf, and the third living creature had a face like that of a man, and the fourth living creature was like a flying eagle." God, when manifested in His creature MAN is exceedingly rich and versatile. When God incarnated in Jesus Christ He left us FOUR snapshots from FOUR diffferent angles in order for us to get a rounded and full portrait of this Person.We have Matthew - the king - the lion.
We then have Luke - the man
We then have Mark - the servant, the ox.
And we have last John - God, the eagle.If you are able to receive it, the four angles of this one Person are like four viewpoints of HOW this profound Person came to manifest God. Matthew emphasizes Christ as the King. This corresponds to the lion.
Mark emphasizes Christ as the servant, the ox, slaving away to bear the burden to serve.
Luke emphasizes that Christ came as the most proper human, the most desires MAN expressing the highest humanity.
John emphasizes that Christ is God Himself. Therefore Christ is like the transcendent eagle hgh above.The Lion, the OX or Calf, the Man, and God Himself is the four fold manifestation of Jesus Christ. He is the Son of God, the Son of Man in utter cooperation and coordination with God the Father.Back in Ezekiel, each of the FOUR living creatures has the four-fold expression revealing the rich all-inclusive ministry of Jesus Christ. And of course what Jesus Christ is God intends in eternity we would be in a corporate way.The administration of a King is needed which is as fierce as a Lion towards God's enemies.The service of a burden bearing Ox is needed to hold up under the heavy burden of human needs.The most normal Human Man is needed for full empathy with all that we are as human beings.The transcendent God with no beginning and no end is needed in His eternal exaltation.Since God and the four living creatures move together in such coordination a Creator / creature coordination is strongly depicted. So when someone says that the vision speaks of the nature of God, I would hasten to add that the creatures OF God are also prominent in the whole vision.We have here God upon a throne.
We have here four living creatures with the rich, four-fold and all-inclusive expression of the four diverse aspects of the ministry of Jesus - the king, the servant, the Man, and God incarnate.The four creatures are a corporate expression.
As they move under the administration of the throne, the throne itself moves.I stop here for length.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

When Moses Malone was asked to pontificate about his team's performance in the NBA championship, he uttered "Four, four, four" which of course meant that he expected 76ers to sweep the three four game playoff series.Moses Malone was no Biblical prophet. One of the series took five games rather than four. But at least there was no numerology involved.

I know how you feel. And it is good to see something of God in the vision.
And if we consider closely we see God AND man on the throne. "And above the expanse that was over their heads was the likeness of a throne ..." We should see that the Divine Throne of God is implied. The universal governmental administration of God should be implied here. "And above the expanse that was over their heads was the likeness of a throne, like the appearance of a sapphire stone; ..." I believe this is a blazing brilliant BLUE color. It is the color of the heavens. It is the same color of sapphire that Moses and the elders of Israel saw in relation to their vision of God in Exodus 24:10Exodus 24:10 - "And they saw the God of Israel, and under His feet there was something like a paved work of sapphire, even like heaven itself for clearness." The blazing clear BLUE sapphire speaks of the heavenly atmosphere where God's throne is. God communicates with us that His seat of authority is heavenly.This blue sapphire pavement under the feet of God in Exodus 24:10 may also be what the prophet refered to as the stones of fire where Lucifer the ancient Anointed Cherub who became Satan, walked in the presence of God, very close to God. "You were the anointed cherub who covered the Ark; indeed I set you, so that you were upon the holy mountain of God; you walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire." Perhaps these stones of fire close to the throne of God in heaven as the same sapphire paved work Moses and the elders saw under the feet of God on the throne.At any rate, both in Exodus and in Exekiel God appears somethin like a man. " ... the likeness of a throne, like the appearance of a sapphire stone; and upon the likeness of the throne was One in appearance like a man, above it." (Ezek. 1:26b) God is seen. Yet man is seen as well. God and man is upon the throne of God.
We have to realize that for God to become a man was not an afterthought only related to Christ's dying to shed redemptive blood for our justification.From eternity God desired to be one with man in an utter "organic" union. It is an eternal desire of God's heart. So the likeness of a man is seen upon the throne of God.How can I prove that God's intention from eternity past was to be united with man? I can prove this because Ephesians 1:4 and 5 indicate strongly that before God created the universe He already had in His heart the predestination of some human beings to be His sons. Please take note of the expression "before the foundattion of the world"God's good pleasure in His heart was to have SONS. He predestinated some to experience sonship. That is not just adoption in a legal way. That is sonship in a living way with a life relationship. He planned this before He created the universe - "before the foundation of the world"And this implies that God created the universe WITH this plan in mind. We human beings are not here by some accident. Before God laid the foundation of the world, before He created the univese He intended that SONS of God would possess His own life and nature.We should consider this when we think of the One on the throne in Ezekiel's vision having the likeness of a man.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

It appears to be a grand vision of God on his throne, Seraphim (living creatures) and what Ezekiel describes as, "a wheel in the middle of a wheel" - a great chariot of God with rims "full of eyes". The eyes around the rims appear to be the eyes of the Lord. I believe that the eyes of the Lord in the old testament was a description of the Spirit of God or Holy Spirit who bears witness. Thus, I believe the vision to include the Holy Spirit Himself as a great living chariot of God.Edited by ScottRP, : No reason given.

Well I don't.I think your photograph is of a dust mote and you are quite definitely bonkers.Perhaps you'd like to take a minute out and explain why it isn't and you aren't?Preferably without using the words "I believe".Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.

I was giving my thoughts on Ezekiel's Vision, not the photograph. The photograph is merely of a spirit in one of God's small chariots. There are thousands of thousands of these chariots. The chariots in Ezekiel's Vision were far greater and thus there would be far fewer in number and maybe only appearing with people like Father God, Jesus and the highest of angels. There is a huge gap between what Ezekiel saw and that photograph. The photograph is merely a tiny bit of evidence leading to the reality of Ezekiel's Vision.

In what way is that photograph evidence?

What that photograph and Ezekiel's vision have in common is that they are both chariots of God. The chariot in Ezekiel's vision is far greater with the rims, "full of eyes". This is do to the fact that the chariot's of Ezekiel were appearing with God and the highest of angels, the Seraphim.