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Author Topic:   Earth science curriculum tailored to fit wavering fundamentalists
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1528 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 256 of 1053 (751875)
03-06-2015 5:00 PM
Reply to: Message 251 by edge
03-06-2015 4:01 PM


Re: Iridium boundary layer
Sorry, I misspoke. It's not that the Flood "explains" the iridium layer, it's that it can be explained in relation to the Flood.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 251 by edge, posted 03-06-2015 4:01 PM edge has not replied

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1528 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 257 of 1053 (751877)
03-06-2015 5:01 PM
Reply to: Message 250 by New Cat's Eye
03-06-2015 3:31 PM


Re: Iridium boundary layer
As I said, I do what I can with what gets thrown at me. I don't expect to be able to answer everything that gets thrown at me but I have faith that it can be answered nevertheless.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 250 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-06-2015 3:31 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 264 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-06-2015 5:09 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1528 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 258 of 1053 (751878)
03-06-2015 5:02 PM
Reply to: Message 253 by Taq
03-06-2015 4:39 PM


Re: Iridium boundary layer
No.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 253 by Taq, posted 03-06-2015 4:39 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 260 by Taq, posted 03-06-2015 5:04 PM Faith has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10158
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 259 of 1053 (751879)
03-06-2015 5:03 PM
Reply to: Message 256 by Faith
03-06-2015 5:00 PM


Re: Iridium boundary layer
Sorry, I misspoke. It's not that the Flood "explains" the iridium layer, it's that it can be explained in relation to the Flood.
How can a recent flood produce an iridium layer that is associated with a layer of tektites that date to 65 million years before present?

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 Message 256 by Faith, posted 03-06-2015 5:00 PM Faith has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10158
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 260 of 1053 (751880)
03-06-2015 5:04 PM
Reply to: Message 258 by Faith
03-06-2015 5:02 PM


Re: Iridium boundary layer
No.
Then describe for us a type of geologic formation that the Flood could not produce.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 258 by Faith, posted 03-06-2015 5:02 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 272 by Faith, posted 03-06-2015 5:33 PM Taq has not replied

  
ThinAirDesigns
Member (Idle past 2457 days)
Posts: 564
Joined: 02-12-2015


Message 261 of 1053 (751881)
03-06-2015 5:05 PM
Reply to: Message 245 by Faith
03-06-2015 2:51 PM


Re: Iridium boundary layer
Faith writes:
I think it does for ThinAir. His whole point is to find arguments against YEC.
Well, not exactly -- I'm looking for valid science that can be explained to folk who have been sequestered from science. I expect them to use that knowledge to make up their own minds. They've had enough of other people making up their minds for them. I'm actually VERY happy to have a YEC proponent educate me as to the sorts of *scientifically valid* experiments that can be done demonstrating YEC.
My 'curriculum' is going to be based on things that can be demonstrated. My family has had plenty of indoctrination in faith -- I'm separating myself from that through evidence and the impact due to that difference has been noticeable, even just so far.
Currently I find the YEC evidence to be sorely lacking. Frankly I don't expect you to change that, but I'd sure like someone to step up and at least attempt to produce some observable evidence that they say stands up. To be blunt, every YEC argument I've found so far makes the common science look pretty damn good by comparison. All I see when I read the YEC internet sites is charlatans preying on the weak (or alternately, extremely ignorant folk pretending they know more than they do).
You're welcome to step up, but I won't be involved in discussions that involve "it could happen" miracles -- only demonstrable science.
JB

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ThinAirDesigns
Member (Idle past 2457 days)
Posts: 564
Joined: 02-12-2015


Message 262 of 1053 (751882)
03-06-2015 5:07 PM
Reply to: Message 255 by jar
03-06-2015 4:55 PM


Re: Iridium boundary layer
jar writes:
Perhaps you can get Faith to present the method and process in her imagined flood that laid down the iridium layer and also the white cliffs of Dover which she has also claimed as the result of the flood.
Yeah, that's the exact problem -- their arguments have no cohesion whatsoever.
JB

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1528 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 263 of 1053 (751883)
03-06-2015 5:07 PM
Reply to: Message 254 by ThinAirDesigns
03-06-2015 4:40 PM


Re: Iridium boundary layer
Settling out of standing water isn't the only way layers could form. Layers form in the deltas of rivers. Water does sort sediments. Running water. There's a whole thread here on Walther's Law showing how layers are formed by rising sea water. There were also some experiments done that show sorting occurring in a tank, keep forgetting the experimenter's name. Bertolt? Berthault? Something like that.
But I've argued out the Flood stuff for so long at EvC I really am not up to getting back into the whole thing, sorry. I just wanted to make that one comment about the iridium layer.
Yes there are lots of different ideas about what the Flood would have done and I have my own.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 254 by ThinAirDesigns, posted 03-06-2015 4:40 PM ThinAirDesigns has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 266 by ThinAirDesigns, posted 03-06-2015 5:16 PM Faith has replied
 Message 270 by Taq, posted 03-06-2015 5:27 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 274 by ThinAirDesigns, posted 03-06-2015 5:40 PM Faith has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 264 of 1053 (751885)
03-06-2015 5:09 PM
Reply to: Message 257 by Faith
03-06-2015 5:01 PM


Re: Iridium boundary layer
As I said, I do what I can with what gets thrown at me. I don't expect to be able to answer everything that gets thrown at me but I have faith that it can be answered nevertheless.
I'm not asking about what is thrown at you. I'm asking you about what you are capable of envisioning.
Can you think of anything at all that you wouldn't not be able to explain with the Flood?

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 Message 257 by Faith, posted 03-06-2015 5:01 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 265 by Faith, posted 03-06-2015 5:12 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1528 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 265 of 1053 (751886)
03-06-2015 5:12 PM
Reply to: Message 264 by New Cat's Eye
03-06-2015 5:09 PM


Re: Iridium boundary layer
What I can envision is irrelevant. There are many things that are not explained by the Flood that are nevertheless not in conflict with it either. So what.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 264 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-06-2015 5:09 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 267 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-06-2015 5:17 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 268 by Taq, posted 03-06-2015 5:25 PM Faith has replied

  
ThinAirDesigns
Member (Idle past 2457 days)
Posts: 564
Joined: 02-12-2015


Message 266 of 1053 (751887)
03-06-2015 5:16 PM
Reply to: Message 263 by Faith
03-06-2015 5:07 PM


Re: Iridium boundary layer
Faith writes:
Layers form in the deltas of rivers. Water does sort sediments. There's a whole thread here on Walther's Law showing how layers are formed by rising sea water. There were also some experiments done that show sorting occurring in a tank, keep forgetting the experimenter's name. Bertolt? Berthault? Something like that.
All fine and dandy, but not a single thing you said there addresses my concern about your 'wave' theory (and least not in any way discernible by me). Hand waving is not something accepted in my science curriculum.
But I've argued out the Flood stuff for so long at EvC I really am not up to getting back into the whole thing, sorry.
Fair enough.
Yes there are lots of different ideas about what the Flood would have done and I have my own.
And I am only interested in ideas that can be backed up by observation. Full stop.
JB

This message is a reply to:
 Message 263 by Faith, posted 03-06-2015 5:07 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 269 by Faith, posted 03-06-2015 5:27 PM ThinAirDesigns has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 267 of 1053 (751888)
03-06-2015 5:17 PM
Reply to: Message 265 by Faith
03-06-2015 5:12 PM


Re: Iridium boundary layer
There are many things that are not explained by the Flood that are nevertheless not in conflict with it either. So what.
I'm wondering if you can even bring yourself to think about a phenomenon that would, actually, be in conflict with the Flood.
Apparently you cannot. And that's really fucked up.

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 Message 265 by Faith, posted 03-06-2015 5:12 PM Faith has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10158
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 268 of 1053 (751890)
03-06-2015 5:25 PM
Reply to: Message 265 by Faith
03-06-2015 5:12 PM


Re: Iridium boundary layer
What I can envision is irrelevant.
Then your claims that you can envision a scenario where the flood can explain the K/T boundary is irrelevant.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 265 by Faith, posted 03-06-2015 5:12 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 271 by Faith, posted 03-06-2015 5:28 PM Taq has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1528 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 269 of 1053 (751891)
03-06-2015 5:27 PM
Reply to: Message 266 by ThinAirDesigns
03-06-2015 5:16 PM


Re: Iridium boundary layer
My "wave" theory? It's just obvious that when the Flood waters were receding from the land mass there would have been very long waves continuing to wash up over the land with the tides and normal wave action, and waves deposit sand on beaches, so why not whatever other sediments were being carried in the water? In fact the patterns of deposition of the different sedimentary layers across the North American continent suggest that sort of deposition, some extending all the way across, some only across a few states.
B: even if you DO have time to settle out a layer, any significant motion will displace and suspend the fresh layer once again. Just wade into any farm pond that has been sitting calm all year and you immediately stir up the soft silt layer and displace/suspend the particles in the water. Even a hard rain or strong wind rippling the surface heavily is enough to cause the water to become silty again. Watch what happens when they release extra water from a dam -- the muddy water is not from rain washing particles in (there's no rain after all), but from silt being stirred up by the current.
There's no reason to expect such disturbances after the rain stopped.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 266 by ThinAirDesigns, posted 03-06-2015 5:16 PM ThinAirDesigns has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 280 by ThinAirDesigns, posted 03-06-2015 7:07 PM Faith has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10158
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 270 of 1053 (751892)
03-06-2015 5:27 PM
Reply to: Message 263 by Faith
03-06-2015 5:07 PM


Re: Iridium boundary layer
Settling out of standing water isn't the only way layers could form. Layers form in the deltas of rivers.
Rivers and standing waters do not sort tektites by their K/Ar ratios so that tektites with specific K/Ar ratios are found next to irridium layers.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 263 by Faith, posted 03-06-2015 5:07 PM Faith has not replied

  
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