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Author Topic:   Earth science curriculum tailored to fit wavering fundamentalists
kbertsche
Member (Idle past 2239 days)
Posts: 1427
From: San Jose, CA, USA
Joined: 05-10-2007


Message 286 of 1053 (751911)
03-06-2015 7:59 PM
Reply to: Message 280 by ThinAirDesigns
03-06-2015 7:07 PM


Re: Iridium boundary layer
Then there's no reason whatsoever to expect that the flood could have placed the bazillion cubic miles of earth in the many layers above the iridium anomaly and then carved features in them (to say nothing of the fossils in those layers).
You see, this is a perfect display of the thought (not) put into transparent YEC crap: "Oh, I'll solve the problem of the water dispersing the newly placed iridium bearing layer by having everything go calm." Yeah, AND THEN WHAT??? How does the rest of the work that the flood supposedly accomplished get done?
This is why the YEC crowd is losing ground and will continue to lose ground. Y'all are satisfied with attempting to sell a selection of individual, contradictory, ad hoc explanations that anyone willing to give them a 30 second sniff test chokes on the stench.
As you well know, this is all consistent with the history of "Flood Geology". It was invented by George McCready Price, a teacher with only very basic training in science. To someone with no or little science background (like Ellen G. White) it sounds plausible. But if one thinks a bit more deeply, they realize that, as a scientific theory, flood geology does not hold water.

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." — Albert Einstein
I am very astonished that the scientific picture of the real world around me is very deficient. It gives us a lot of factual information, puts all of our experience in a magnificently consistent order, but it is ghastly silent about all and sundry that is really near to our heart, that really matters to us. It cannot tell us a word about red and blue, bitter and sweet, physical pain and physical delight; it knows nothing of beautiful and ugly, good or bad, God and eternity. Science sometimes pretends to answer questions in these domains, but the answers are very often so silly that we are not inclined to take them seriously. — Erwin Schroedinger

This message is a reply to:
 Message 280 by ThinAirDesigns, posted 03-06-2015 7:07 PM ThinAirDesigns has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 294 by ThinAirDesigns, posted 03-06-2015 8:38 PM kbertsche has not replied

  
ThinAirDesigns
Member (Idle past 2481 days)
Posts: 564
Joined: 02-12-2015


Message 287 of 1053 (751912)
03-06-2015 8:09 PM
Reply to: Message 282 by Faith
03-06-2015 7:25 PM


Re: Iridium boundary layer
Faith writes:
... it's about the past which can't be replicated.
Intellectual dishonesty. You better hope your defense attorney isn't of that mind if you are ever falsely accused of a witnessless crime. The ability to show through evidence that you could not possibly be the killer (in the past) will be your salvation.
Geology is both observable and replicated daily in labs. We can watch how sediments are sorted in lakes, rivers, oceans and catastrophic events. We can subject materials to great heat and pressure and replicate the natural process of nature (kick ass man made diamonds anyone?). We can measure mountains getting higher and continents drifting apart. We can witness faults displace. We can and do learn from all of this. To say we can't understand one time events in the past is to say we can't determine if a large boulder at the base of a cliff was from the cliff above or hauled in by earth movers. No one saw it happen and the past can't be replicated so we'll just call everything speculation. Hogwash is what that is.
Faith writes:
So the layer of iridium was deposited during the receding of the water.
So I give the kids that line and one smartly asks: "If as Faith asserts, the iridium layer was placed during the relatively calm receding of the waters and this iridium layer is many layers down and the flood placed all the layers and all the fossils and carved all the features ABOVE that layer, how could relatively calm receding waters have done all that, one layer at a time?" what should my answer be.
Never mind. Really, never mind - I would never subject kids to that sort of silliness (other than to demonstrate, well ... silliness) so your answer would be pointless.
JB

This message is a reply to:
 Message 282 by Faith, posted 03-06-2015 7:25 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 288 by Faith, posted 03-06-2015 8:19 PM ThinAirDesigns has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1552 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 288 of 1053 (751913)
03-06-2015 8:19 PM
Reply to: Message 287 by ThinAirDesigns
03-06-2015 8:09 PM


Re: Iridium boundary layer
I've discussed all this stuff elsewhere. This is tiresome and your attitude is offensive.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 287 by ThinAirDesigns, posted 03-06-2015 8:09 PM ThinAirDesigns has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 292 by jar, posted 03-06-2015 8:32 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 297 by edge, posted 03-06-2015 9:04 PM Faith has replied

  
ThinAirDesigns
Member (Idle past 2481 days)
Posts: 564
Joined: 02-12-2015


Message 289 of 1053 (751914)
03-06-2015 8:22 PM
Reply to: Message 285 by Faith
03-06-2015 7:48 PM


Re: Iridium boundary layer
Faith writes:
My interest is wholly limited to the remark I made that the iridium layer can be explained in relation to the Flood.
And if only you had been able to explain it in relation to the flood it would have been an interesting contribution. Sadly you could only present poorly thought out speculation that doesn't remotely fit the evidence.
Faith writes:
There is no way I know of to come up with an experiment to demonstrate how the layers formed miles thick across whole continents on a spherical globe. If I come up with one or find one described on a creationist site or somewhere I'll let you know.
Now we know.
Back on track with verifiable knowledge. Much appreciation to those who are generously contributing to that.
JB

This message is a reply to:
 Message 285 by Faith, posted 03-06-2015 7:48 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 290 by Faith, posted 03-06-2015 8:23 PM ThinAirDesigns has not replied
 Message 309 by RAZD, posted 03-06-2015 9:18 PM ThinAirDesigns has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1552 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 290 of 1053 (751915)
03-06-2015 8:23 PM
Reply to: Message 289 by ThinAirDesigns
03-06-2015 8:22 PM


Re: Iridium boundary layer
Liar.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 289 by ThinAirDesigns, posted 03-06-2015 8:22 PM ThinAirDesigns has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 291 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-06-2015 8:31 PM Faith has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 392 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 291 of 1053 (751916)
03-06-2015 8:31 PM
Reply to: Message 290 by Faith
03-06-2015 8:23 PM


Re: Iridium boundary layer
Liar.
What I love about this post is the depth of research and reasoning that backs it up.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 290 by Faith, posted 03-06-2015 8:23 PM Faith has not replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34123
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 292 of 1053 (751917)
03-06-2015 8:32 PM
Reply to: Message 288 by Faith
03-06-2015 8:19 PM


Re: Iridium boundary layer
Faith writes:
I've discussed all this stuff elsewhere. This is tiresome and your attitude is offensive.
Then it should be no problem for you to actaually provide links to anywhere that you discussed all this stuff Faith.
Any links Faith?
Any model Faith?
Any process Faith?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 288 by Faith, posted 03-06-2015 8:19 PM Faith has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 392 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 293 of 1053 (751918)
03-06-2015 8:37 PM
Reply to: Message 278 by Faith
03-06-2015 5:57 PM


Re: The Topic
Yes we've done it to death and I never agreed with you that science that interprets the past has the same explanatory power as science has that can be replicated in the present over and over and over.
And you were wrong. Hey, we've gotten used to that.
And I got you to admit that you were wrong, which is more unusual.
But I'm sure we have a thread about this subject.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 278 by Faith, posted 03-06-2015 5:57 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 303 by Faith, posted 03-06-2015 9:11 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
ThinAirDesigns
Member (Idle past 2481 days)
Posts: 564
Joined: 02-12-2015


Message 294 of 1053 (751919)
03-06-2015 8:38 PM
Reply to: Message 286 by kbertsche
03-06-2015 7:59 PM


Re: Iridium boundary layer
kbertsche writes:
As you well know, this is all consistent with the history of "Flood Geology". It was invented by George McCready Price, a teacher with only very basic training in science. To someone with no or little science background (like Ellen G. White) it sounds plausible. But if one thinks a bit more deeply, they realize that, as a scientific theory, flood geology does not hold water.
Yeah, one of my favorite stories relating to Price (the ultimate armchair scientist) was when one of his prized pupils (Harold Clark) actually went to the field and reported back:
quote:
The rocks do lie in a much more definite sequence than we have ever allowed. The statements made in your book, The New Geology, do not harmonize with the conditions in the field. All over the Midwest the rocks lie in great sheets extending over hundreds of miles, in regular order. Thousands of well cores prove this. In East Texas alone are 25,000 deep wells. Probably well over 100,000 wells in the Midwest give data that has been studied and correlated. The science has become a very exact one. Millions of dollars are spent in drilling, with the paleontological findings of the company geologists taken as the basis for the work. The sequence of the microscopic fossils in the strata is remarkably uniform. The same sequence is found in America, Europe, and anywhere that detailed studies have been made. This oil geology has opened up the depths of the earth in a way that we never dreamed of twenty years ago.
It was reported that "Price could hardly contain is fury."
(The Creationists: Ronald Numbers page 125, 126)
It's often hilarious and instructive the reactions when people find out what they know to be true isn't actually true.
JB
EDIT: Just realized that I posted that story earlier in the thread. Well, I did say it was a favorite of mine.
Edited by ThinAirDesigns, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 286 by kbertsche, posted 03-06-2015 7:59 PM kbertsche has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 300 by Faith, posted 03-06-2015 9:08 PM ThinAirDesigns has not replied

  
edge
Member (Idle past 1813 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 295 of 1053 (751920)
03-06-2015 8:57 PM
Reply to: Message 282 by Faith
03-06-2015 7:25 PM


Re: Iridium boundary layer
So the layer of iridium was deposited during the receding of the water.
Not sure what leads you to this position. Please explain.
Nobody claims the Flood has been adequately understood, we're just trying to put together the possibilities.
Why is such a flood possible? What is your evidence?
Nothing is hard and fast, we're working on it.
I seriously doubt that. Please support this statement. Who is working on this and what are they doing?
What are you so angry about? The science that is used to debunk the Flood is all speculation too, because it has to be because it's about the past which can't be replicated.
It is about processes that happened and produced effects in the past.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 282 by Faith, posted 03-06-2015 7:25 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 301 by Faith, posted 03-06-2015 9:09 PM edge has replied

  
edge
Member (Idle past 1813 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 296 of 1053 (751921)
03-06-2015 9:01 PM
Reply to: Message 285 by Faith
03-06-2015 7:48 PM


Re: Iridium boundary layer
As for participating on this thread, I'm not interested in participating on this thread, I'd like to get off it. My interest is wholly limited to the remark I made that the iridium layer can be explained in relation to the Flood.
But it isn't explained by the flood is it?
All you are really saying is that it, 'could'a happened at the same time'.
A completely meaningless statement.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 285 by Faith, posted 03-06-2015 7:48 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 298 by Faith, posted 03-06-2015 9:05 PM edge has replied

  
edge
Member (Idle past 1813 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 297 of 1053 (751922)
03-06-2015 9:04 PM
Reply to: Message 288 by Faith
03-06-2015 8:19 PM


Re: Iridium boundary layer
I've discussed all this stuff elsewhere. This is tiresome and your attitude is offensive.
Actually, no, you have not 'discussed' anything. You have preached and made a bunch of unsupported, wishful assertions.
And speaking of offensive...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 288 by Faith, posted 03-06-2015 8:19 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 299 by Faith, posted 03-06-2015 9:06 PM edge has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1552 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 298 of 1053 (751923)
03-06-2015 9:05 PM
Reply to: Message 296 by edge
03-06-2015 9:01 PM


Re: Iridium boundary layer
Point was it can't be used as evidence against the Flood.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 296 by edge, posted 03-06-2015 9:01 PM edge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 302 by edge, posted 03-06-2015 9:10 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1552 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 299 of 1053 (751924)
03-06-2015 9:06 PM
Reply to: Message 297 by edge
03-06-2015 9:04 PM


Re: Iridium boundary layer
Logical arguments are not wishful assertions.
And my attitude has not been offensive, his has, and yours usually is too, just a matter of time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 297 by edge, posted 03-06-2015 9:04 PM edge has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1552 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 300 of 1053 (751925)
03-06-2015 9:08 PM
Reply to: Message 294 by ThinAirDesigns
03-06-2015 8:38 PM


Re: Iridium boundary layer
Don't know anything about Price. The information Clark produced about the great extent of the rock sheets is consistent with the idea of the Flood.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 294 by ThinAirDesigns, posted 03-06-2015 8:38 PM ThinAirDesigns has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 305 by edge, posted 03-06-2015 9:12 PM Faith has replied

  
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