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Author Topic:   Fundamental Biblical Christianity and Fundamental Islam Fundamentally 180% Opposites
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 10 of 182 (75189)
12-26-2003 9:30 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Coragyps
12-25-2003 9:05 PM


Coragyps responds to buzsaw:
quote:
quote:
How many Christian fundies are blowing themselves up, killing all they can with them in the name of Christian Biblical fundamentalism?
Buz, can you say "Ireland"?
And let's not forget David Koresh and Jim Jones.
And just to show that it isn't restricted to Christians, let's not forget Heaven's Gate.
------------------
Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Coragyps, posted 12-25-2003 9:05 PM Coragyps has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 174 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 04-30-2004 7:30 PM Rrhain has not replied

  
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 15 of 182 (75218)
12-26-2003 2:46 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Buzsaw
12-26-2003 10:17 AM


buzsaw writes:
quote:
Jesus and his apostles and desciples never killed or persecuted anyone
No, Jesus just made a fig tree wither for having the audacity of not bearing fruit out of season:
Matthew 21:19: And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away.
The Bible also espouses animal abuse:
Hebrews 12:20: (For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart:
The Bible even exhorts us to kill people:
Romans 1:31: Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
1:32: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
Luke 19:27: But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.
Paul makes someone go blind:
Acts 13:8: But Elymas the sorcerer (for so is his name by interpretation) withstood them, seeking to turn away the deputy from the faith.
13:9: Then Saul, (who also is called Paul,) filled with the Holy Ghost, set his eyes on him.
13:10: And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?
13:11: And now, behold, the hand of the Lord is upon thee, and thou shalt be blind, not seeing the sun for a season. And immediately there fell on him a mist and a darkness; and he went about seeking some to lead him by the hand.
Paul compares himself to David...but David was hardly merciful:
2 Samuel 12:31: And he brought forth the people that were therein, and put them under saws, and under harrows of iron, and under axes of iron, and made them pass through the brick-kiln: and thus did he unto all the cities of the children of Ammon. So David and all the people returned unto Jerusalem.
Let's not forget that Peter actually kills somebody:
5:1: But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,
5:2: And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet.
5:3: But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
5:4: Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
5:5: And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.
5:6: And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him.
5:7: And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in.
5:8: And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much.
5:9: Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out.
5:10: Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband.
Jesus threatens a crippled man with a worse fate:
John 5:14: Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.
So any claims that Christianity is a peaceful religion simply aren't true.
------------------
Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Buzsaw, posted 12-26-2003 10:17 AM Buzsaw has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by mike the wiz, posted 12-27-2003 8:10 PM Rrhain has replied
 Message 175 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 04-30-2004 7:38 PM Rrhain has not replied

  
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 17 of 182 (75386)
12-27-2003 9:57 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by mike the wiz
12-27-2003 8:10 PM


mike the wiz responds to me:
quote:
quote:
By the way, radiocarbon is not reliable in giving accurate dates going back thousands of years. AiG believes that Noah's Flood should be dated to about 4,300 years ago.)
Being worthy of death yes, but it doesn't actually say kill people.
Oh, don't be naive.
Do you really think that if you tell people that Joe Schmoe is "worthy of death," it would never cross anybody's mind to actually go ahead and do it?
What on earth is the point of saying that somebody is "worthy of death" if not to indicate that he should be killed? Nowhere in the chapter does it say not to do it, that killing is wrong, or that the phrase is simply a metaphor or parable.
quote:
It say's worthy of death, it does not give any instruction to kill.
What do you think "worthy of death" is if not an exhortation to kill?
quote:
quote:
And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost:
I thought "gave up the ghost" simply meant to die. I can't find the part where Peter killed anyone.
Why did you cut out the rest of the verses I included?
Acts 5:3: But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
5:4: Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
What do you think Peter was doing? He scared Ananias to death...and then did the same thing to Ananias' wife.
quote:
You said Jesus doesn't need me - and so he doesn't, but it seems you have missed some of his words, so let me divulge;
Um, what part of "doesn't need you" don't you understand?
Your preaching to me again, mike. You're trying to convert me. I thought you said you wouldn't try to convert me. Stop it.
quote:
Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill
Help me out here, I'm still not sure how you would interpret this scripture.
Simple: One of the many contradictions in the Bible. The Old Testament is filled with commandments to go out and kill. The New Testament even describes people who are worthy of death with absolutely no mention that you're not supposed to actually follow through with that exhortation.
quote:
You have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you
Let me guess , your going to say God's laws don't change.
Yep. God's laws don't change. So am I supposed to believe Leviticus which details many different things that require me to personally kill people or am I supposed to believe Exodus and Deuteronomy that say don't kill people?
Since the Bible says that god's laws don't change and since the Bible clearly indicates that the law does change, what does that say about the validity of the Bible?
quote:
And I am condemning people to hell because I believe in Christ.
No, not by your belief. By your claim that if others don't do what you tell them to, they'll go to hell.
------------------
Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by mike the wiz, posted 12-27-2003 8:10 PM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by mike the wiz, posted 12-28-2003 8:09 AM Rrhain has replied

  
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 19 of 182 (75481)
12-28-2003 7:30 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by mike the wiz
12-28-2003 8:09 AM


mike the wiz responds to me:
quote:
Well, I'll stop preaching then but really I thought you must have surely missed some of Jesus' words as you were making out the NT has no peaceful scriptures?
- Surely you don't believe that Rrhain?
Of course it does.
You're missing the point, however. Since the Bible is filled with contradictory statements, why should anybody complain that a person is choosing to pay attention to one verse over another?
After all, Jesus directly states that the Law has not been revoked. Not one jot, not one tittle of the Law shall change till all be fulfilled. So Leviticus is in full effect.
When was the last time you stoned someone as Leviticus commands you to do?
Why do you pay attention to the other statements of Jesus regarding Leviticus (basically calling the Pharisees hypocrites rather than actually saying that the Law has been revoked) rather than his direct statement that the Law will not be altered until all be fulfilled?
quote:
quote:
No, not by your belief. By your claim that if others don't do what you tell them to, they'll go to hell.
I don't tell people to do what I say
You tell them to believe in the Bible like you do. You say that if they disagree with your interpretation of the Bible, they are wrong.
And, since you have the only accurate interpretation of the Bible, they're going to go to hell for that.
Ergo, you're telling people to do what you say.
------------------
Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by mike the wiz, posted 12-28-2003 8:09 AM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by mike the wiz, posted 12-29-2003 10:50 AM Rrhain has replied

  
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 22 of 182 (75636)
12-29-2003 3:36 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by mike the wiz
12-29-2003 10:50 AM


mike the wiz responds to me:
quote:
quote:
When was the last time you stoned someone as Leviticus commands you to do?
Well, strictly speaking God did say near the end of Leviticus, that the law made was for his people Israel
Well, strictly speaking, Jesus did say that he did not come to change the law but to fulfill it and that not one jot, not one tittle of the law would change until all be fulfilled.
Ergo, Christians need to follow Levitical proscriptions, too.
So answer the question: When was the last time you stoned someone as Leviticus commands you to do?
quote:
Don't forget, Jesus said he came to fulfill the law
Sorry, but that's my point, mike. He came to fulfill the law, not change. It is still required to follow Leviticus.
------------------
Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by mike the wiz, posted 12-29-2003 10:50 AM mike the wiz has not replied

  
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