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Author Topic:   The Bully Swarm Thread, off the Earth Science Curriculum thread
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2059
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 8.3


Message 16 of 155 (752186)
03-09-2015 12:41 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Faith
03-09-2015 12:21 PM


Re: More Floody stuff from the other thread
Thank you SO much for your thoughtful and considerate reply ihn which you so carefully consider the arguments I've made.

You are welcome. I have been reading and rejecting your arguments for many years. It is amazing, but I don't think there is anyone that I have disagreed with on more subjects than you.

I know for a fact that you just about never read anything I write, let along think about it, by how long it takes you to hit the Cheer button for anybody who disagrees with me. You are a sad case. And if you are telling me to get off ThinAir's thread, I respectfully request that you take your dragonfly back to Starbucks and get off MY thread.

I do like the cheer button. I love it when your opponents poke you in the eye with the truth. I just can't help myself. You are so consistently wrong about everything you write that it boggles the mind.

And if you are telling me to get off ThinAir's thread,

No, ThinAir was telling you that he wants to talk about evidence, not fantasy. Since you didn't have any evidence he asked you to stop.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Faith, posted 03-09-2015 12:21 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by Faith, posted 03-09-2015 12:43 PM Tanypteryx has responded

  
Faith
Inactive Member


Message 17 of 155 (752188)
03-09-2015 12:43 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Tanypteryx
03-09-2015 12:41 PM


Re: More Floody stuff from the other thread
Well, as a matter of fact he was speculating about what the Flood would do just as everybody else was doing. The evidence is available to all and I use it too. You don't know what you are talking about and you don't know how to think and you wouldn't know the truth if it poked YOU in the eye. Please get off my thread and stay off. Thank you.

ABE: Oh and P.S.: I've always been able to answer the posts you Cheer. You don't know what you are talking about.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Tanypteryx, posted 03-09-2015 12:41 PM Tanypteryx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Tanypteryx, posted 03-09-2015 12:59 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 24 by Tanypteryx, posted 03-09-2015 1:19 PM Faith has responded

jar
Member
Posts: 30935
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(3)
Message 18 of 155 (752190)
03-09-2015 12:48 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Faith
03-09-2015 12:31 PM


say what?
Faith writes:

And people really need to stop talking about what "a flood" would do. Any flood anybody has ever seen would be NOTHING like The Flood.

You keep saying really silly stuff like the above yet you never provide any reasoning or evidence of why that might be true.

How would 40 days and 40 nights of rain wear away more granite than tens of thousands of years of water falling over Niagara Falls or any other such water fall?

It really is that simple Faith.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Faith, posted 03-09-2015 12:31 PM Faith has not yet responded

kbertsche
Member (Idle past 239 days)
Posts: 1427
From: San Jose, CA, USA
Joined: 05-10-2007


(5)
Message 19 of 155 (752192)
03-09-2015 12:51 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Faith
03-09-2015 12:20 PM


Re: water sorting by particle size
This IS a site for DEBATE between creationists and evolutionists, right? Apparently ThinAir won't discuss anything with a creationist.
Now they are discussing how water sorts according to size. Yes, and so what? We'd expect to see this in the Flood wherever Walther's Law applies, and perhaps also in strata laid down by waves as beach sand is, the heavier larger particles depositing on the bottom of the layer. This would take examining a lot of layers everywhere. Just off the top of my head I'm aware of some layers of coarser material that occur higher in the column than other layers, in the Grand Canyon as well as the Grand Staircase, but this needs checking.

The purpose of the original thread is very clear and focused. ThinAir is looking for teaching ideas to help convince YECs that the earth and universe are old. He is NOT trying to discuss whether or not the earth really IS old, whether or not there was a global flood, or whether or not flood geology explains anything. His thread starts with an old earth as a "given" and works from there.

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." Albert Einstein

I am very astonished that the scientific picture of the real world around me is very deficient. It gives us a lot of factual information, puts all of our experience in a magnificently consistent order, but it is ghastly silent about all and sundry that is really near to our heart, that really matters to us. It cannot tell us a word about red and blue, bitter and sweet, physical pain and physical delight; it knows nothing of beautiful and ugly, good or bad, God and eternity. Science sometimes pretends to answer questions in these domains, but the answers are very often so silly that we are not inclined to take them seriously. Erwin Schroedinger


This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Faith, posted 03-09-2015 12:20 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2059
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 8.3


(1)
Message 20 of 155 (752195)
03-09-2015 12:59 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Faith
03-09-2015 12:43 PM


Re: More Floody stuff from the other thread
Well, as a matter of fact he was speculating about what the Flood would do just as everybody else was doing.

No, he is asking questions and for clarifications of the answers he is getting. Everyone else is giving him experiments to demonstrate various principles and formulas to calculate what will happen. They are giving him published references. What you are doing is fantasizing, no science involved.

You don't know what you are talking about and you don't know how to think and you wouldn't know the truth if it poked YOU in the eye.

Good one!


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Faith, posted 03-09-2015 12:43 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 213 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(4)
Message 21 of 155 (752196)
03-09-2015 1:05 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Faith
03-09-2015 10:47 AM


Re: More Floody stuff from the other thread
Only his opinion is acceptable. Or antiFloodists' opinion anyway.

First, not all "opinions" or interpretations are of equal value.

And second, you were peddling belief that is completely contradicted by scientific evidence in the Science Forum. Religious belief unsupported by evidence just doesn't belong in that forum.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Faith, posted 03-09-2015 10:47 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by Faith, posted 03-09-2015 1:13 PM Coyote has acknowledged this reply

Faith
Inactive Member


Message 22 of 155 (752198)
03-09-2015 1:13 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by Coyote
03-09-2015 1:05 PM


Re: More Floody stuff from the other thread
Actually I was giving better interpretations of the Flood against superficial kneejerk interpretations. But OK, if they continue to say nonsensical things about the Flood over there I'll answer them over here.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Coyote, posted 03-09-2015 1:05 PM Coyote has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by jar, posted 03-09-2015 1:27 PM Faith has not yet responded

herebedragons
Member
Posts: 1498
From: Michigan
Joined: 11-22-2009


Message 23 of 155 (752199)
03-09-2015 1:15 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Faith
03-09-2015 12:31 PM


Because of tides and waves that deposited material in layers with time gaps in between. What, you prefer the nonsensical idea that the coal seams represent a time period?

So, you think that layers were laid down with "time gaps" but don't represent any type of "time period." What can that possibly mean? I have tried to point this out to you before that in your scenario the "time periods" are there... they just represent minutes or possibly hours rather than millions of years. But they undoubtedly represent "time periods."

HBD


Whoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca

"Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem.

Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Faith, posted 03-09-2015 12:31 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by Faith, posted 03-09-2015 1:21 PM herebedragons has responded

Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2059
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 8.3


Message 24 of 155 (752200)
03-09-2015 1:19 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Faith
03-09-2015 12:43 PM


Re: More Floody stuff from the other thread
Oh and P.S.: I've always been able to answer the posts you Cheer.

You may have replied to them, but never with evidence, just fantasy.

You don't know what you are talking about.

You sure like saying that, twice in one post. Childish.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Faith, posted 03-09-2015 12:43 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by Faith, posted 03-09-2015 1:25 PM Tanypteryx has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 16350
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.4


(2)
Message 25 of 155 (752201)
03-09-2015 1:20 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Faith
03-09-2015 12:31 PM


faith writes:

Any flood anybody has ever seen would be NOTHING like The Flood.


That's a convenient way to get around any evidence isn't it? Never mind what we can actually see happening in real life, the magical Flood woulda/coulda/shoulda been different.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Faith, posted 03-09-2015 12:31 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by Faith, posted 03-09-2015 1:23 PM ringo has responded

Faith
Inactive Member


Message 26 of 155 (752202)
03-09-2015 1:21 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by herebedragons
03-09-2015 1:15 PM


So, you think that layers were laid down with "time gaps" but don't represent any type of "time period." What can that possibly mean? I have tried to point this out to you before that in your scenario the "time periods" are there... they just represent minutes or possibly hours rather than millions of years. But they undoubtedly represent "time periods

I don't recall you making that point, but what I mean by time periods is the millions of years currently assigned to the layers of the Geo Column otherwise known as the Geo Time Scale, the Eras and so on. Time gaps of hours or even days are something else, and would fit into a Flood scenario that takes wave action and tides into account.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by herebedragons, posted 03-09-2015 1:15 PM herebedragons has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by herebedragons, posted 03-09-2015 3:01 PM Faith has not yet responded

Faith
Inactive Member


Message 27 of 155 (752203)
03-09-2015 1:23 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by ringo
03-09-2015 1:20 PM


Scale, proportion, ocean currents and waves which are not part of the usual local flood. THINK.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by ringo, posted 03-09-2015 1:20 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by ringo, posted 03-09-2015 1:28 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 31 by Tanypteryx, posted 03-09-2015 1:34 PM Faith has responded

Faith
Inactive Member


Message 28 of 155 (752204)
03-09-2015 1:25 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Tanypteryx
03-09-2015 1:19 PM


Re: More Floody stuff from the other thread
You don't know what you are talking about. Third time now.

Yes I've certainly used evidence but what you manage not to consider is that everything anybody says for or against the Flood is speculation. It can't be anything else. We make use of physical principles for the speculation.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Tanypteryx, posted 03-09-2015 1:19 PM Tanypteryx has not yet responded

jar
Member
Posts: 30935
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(2)
Message 29 of 155 (752205)
03-09-2015 1:27 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by Faith
03-09-2015 1:13 PM


Re: More Floody stuff from the other thread
Faith writes:

Actually I was giving better interpretations of the Flood against superficial kneejerk interpretations.

And that's the problem with your position Faith, you offer only interpretations where all the others have been offering evidence and explanations.

You need to provide the actual model and method that explains what is seen. Just claiming the flood did it or it's in the Bible carries no weight or worth.

You claim the rain and flood was different than what we see today. Then you need to explain how it would be different than water cascading over a water fall, monsoon flooding, annual river floods and all the other examples we see today.

You need to provide the method that can produce layer of chalk seen at the White Cliffs of Dover in just 6000 years, how to make over six million alternating light and dark, fine and coarse layers in just 6000 years, how to make salt layers hundreds of feet think and buried thousands of feet underground in just 6000 years.

This is the tip, the very tip of the problem you face Faith. There are literally thousands of other things easily explained under an old earth scenario but impossible in a young earth one and the problem for you is that all of the thousands of such examples are not a matter of interpretation but fact, reality.

As a Christian it is very important for me to show folk that it is not necessary to abandon Christianity, only the falsehoods being marketed by the snake oil salesmen.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Faith, posted 03-09-2015 1:13 PM Faith has not yet responded

ringo
Member
Posts: 16350
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.4


(1)
Message 30 of 155 (752206)
03-09-2015 1:28 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by Faith
03-09-2015 1:23 PM


Faith writes:

Scale, proportion, ocean currents and waves which are not part of the usual local flood. THINK.


But your THOUGHTS are pure FANTASY, with no connection to reality.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Faith, posted 03-09-2015 1:23 PM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by jar, posted 03-09-2015 1:37 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

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