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Author Topic:   The Bully Swarm Thread, off the Earth Science Curriculum thread
Tanypteryx
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Posts: 2135
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.0


(2)
Message 11 of 155 (752178)
03-09-2015 12:20 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Faith
03-09-2015 10:47 AM


Re: More Floody stuff from the other thread
So since the KT boundary asteroid ribbon occurs high in the geologic column I'd suppose that the rain had long since stopped and the full depth of the flood had been reached some time ago as well, so I'd postulate that the KT boundary powder had plenty of opportunity to float for a very long time on relatively placid water before the water receded enough for it to be deposited on the surface of whatever the last sediment to be deposited was.

In your fantasy, the whole world is covered by a flood and than a huge asteroid hits and you think the water would be placid? The waves that would race all the way around the planet would have smashed and sunk Noah's boat.

None of your silly ideas have any resemblance to reality. The materials of the earth, silt, sand, gravel, rocks, boulders, do not behave in water the way you imagine they do. Anyone can test these things for themselves and then when we look at the sedimentary layers themselves they clearly were not deposited by one giant flood. All the deposits you cannot explain demonstrate that you are wrong.

You have been told all this stuff over and over for years, but you insist that the bible is the complete story and the evidence we can go out and actually study is not there.

There is no asteroid in the bible. There is no flood "geology" in the bible. You have made all that up. There is just rain hard enough to flood the whole world in 40 days and then they float around for a while and then the water goes away and all the bad people and animals are dead. It is a fable

There is far more evidence that Santa Claus is real than the flood or god or Jesus or that any of Genisis is true. It is time to grow up Faith. You have no evidence. All the evidence, all of it, every single bit of it, shows that the earth is billions of years old, that life is billions of years old, and that Evolution explains the diversity of life that we see today.

So the discussion is continuing over at the other thread with ThinAir offering his opinion about the Flood now, but I'm not allowed to post there apparently. Only his opinion is acceptable. Or antiFloodists' opinion anyway.

ThinAirDesigns is getting evidence that he asked for, actual evidence from scientists who have done the research. RAZD, Dr. A, Edge and others are providing him with that evidence.

Then you come along and start arguing with everyone with your completely unsubstantiated fantasies. He has already heard all that and rejected it. He told you he wants facts not fantasy and to please stop cluttering up the thread.

No one believes you Faith. The evidence is all against you and you will never convince anyone that you are right. It is all about evidence and you do not have any.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Faith, posted 03-09-2015 10:47 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by Faith, posted 03-09-2015 12:21 PM Tanypteryx has responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2135
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 16 of 155 (752186)
03-09-2015 12:41 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Faith
03-09-2015 12:21 PM


Re: More Floody stuff from the other thread
Thank you SO much for your thoughtful and considerate reply ihn which you so carefully consider the arguments I've made.

You are welcome. I have been reading and rejecting your arguments for many years. It is amazing, but I don't think there is anyone that I have disagreed with on more subjects than you.

I know for a fact that you just about never read anything I write, let along think about it, by how long it takes you to hit the Cheer button for anybody who disagrees with me. You are a sad case. And if you are telling me to get off ThinAir's thread, I respectfully request that you take your dragonfly back to Starbucks and get off MY thread.

I do like the cheer button. I love it when your opponents poke you in the eye with the truth. I just can't help myself. You are so consistently wrong about everything you write that it boggles the mind.

And if you are telling me to get off ThinAir's thread,

No, ThinAir was telling you that he wants to talk about evidence, not fantasy. Since you didn't have any evidence he asked you to stop.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Faith, posted 03-09-2015 12:21 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by Faith, posted 03-09-2015 12:43 PM Tanypteryx has responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2135
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.0


(1)
Message 20 of 155 (752195)
03-09-2015 12:59 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Faith
03-09-2015 12:43 PM


Re: More Floody stuff from the other thread
Well, as a matter of fact he was speculating about what the Flood would do just as everybody else was doing.

No, he is asking questions and for clarifications of the answers he is getting. Everyone else is giving him experiments to demonstrate various principles and formulas to calculate what will happen. They are giving him published references. What you are doing is fantasizing, no science involved.

You don't know what you are talking about and you don't know how to think and you wouldn't know the truth if it poked YOU in the eye.

Good one!


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Faith, posted 03-09-2015 12:43 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2135
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 24 of 155 (752200)
03-09-2015 1:19 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Faith
03-09-2015 12:43 PM


Re: More Floody stuff from the other thread
Oh and P.S.: I've always been able to answer the posts you Cheer.

You may have replied to them, but never with evidence, just fantasy.

You don't know what you are talking about.

You sure like saying that, twice in one post. Childish.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Faith, posted 03-09-2015 12:43 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by Faith, posted 03-09-2015 1:25 PM Tanypteryx has not yet responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2135
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.0


(1)
Message 31 of 155 (752207)
03-09-2015 1:34 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by Faith
03-09-2015 1:23 PM


Scale, proportion, ocean currents and waves which are not part of the usual local flood. THINK.

Yeah, Ringo, THINK.

Faith, when we think about it, we see there is no reason whatsoever to conclude that the principles of physics are not the same. Sedimentation occurs the same whether the flood is large or small. The evidence in the rocks shows this and experimental evidence shows it also.

You are the one that needs to THINK about why all the evidence shows that you are wrong.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Faith, posted 03-09-2015 1:23 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by Faith, posted 03-09-2015 1:55 PM Tanypteryx has not yet responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2135
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.0


(2)
Message 51 of 155 (752241)
03-09-2015 3:55 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by herebedragons
03-09-2015 3:12 PM


Re: say what?
What if you did not have the Biblical account... would you still think the evidence supports a global flood? Would you come to the same conclusion independent of the Bible?

I find it interesting that for several hundred years people have gone out and studied the geology of the planet and reached the inescapable conclusion that it is old and that events that have shaped the surface of the planet have been occurring for billions of years. Some of the ones who started out studying it were creationists and they came to realize that the bible was incorrect and that the sedimentary layers were not caused by a worldwide flood.

Evidence from dozens of different scientific disciplines all confirms that the evidence is true and Faith's view of the bible is not. It is amazing to me that after 2 centuries of research and irrefutable evidence there are still so many people who refuse to accept it. They are almost always people like Faith who has never done a single minute of research in the field. No one who has actually gone out and studied the rocks can cling to the fable.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by herebedragons, posted 03-09-2015 3:12 PM herebedragons has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by herebedragons, posted 03-09-2015 4:20 PM Tanypteryx has responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2135
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.0


(1)
Message 62 of 155 (752270)
03-09-2015 8:35 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by herebedragons
03-09-2015 4:20 PM


Re: say what?
Does that make sense or do I need to explain more of what I mean?

Yep, it makes sense. The stories teach lessons and explain what primitive people thought about the world and the supernatural. But the stories of Genesis cannot be used to understand the history of the Universe or the planet earth or of life. The conclusions of scientific inquiry about the Universe give us an understanding far beyond anything that was written by primitive bronze age people thousands of years ago.

I am just continually amazed that so many people today, surrounded by our vast accumulation of knowledge and technology would reject the knowledge in favor of bronze age mythology.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by herebedragons, posted 03-09-2015 4:20 PM herebedragons has not yet responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2135
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 80 of 155 (752339)
03-10-2015 3:23 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by Faith
03-10-2015 11:19 AM


Re: More Floody stuff from the other thread
The way I see it, HBD, somebody gets all involved in trying to prove the Flood didn't happen by getting minutely scientific about how particles settle out of water, as if that is the only possible way the layers could have been formed by the Flood. So I just point out that settling out isn't the only way layers could have formed.

The devil's in the details.

The details are what makes up a successful theory. If you can't explain the details you have nothing. All of the details.

You keeping making up assertions about various geological features, but you will not explain how your scenario would actually work. We keep asking and you keep saying it should be obvious if we THINK about it, but when details about those features are pointed out that could not have formed in the manner you claim, you get all defensive instead of explaining it.

It is like you are writing the titles of chapters in your book of the flood, but never getting around to writing the actual chapter. We want to read your book, but every time we ask you about what the chapter says you repeat the title and accuse us of being bullies.

Guess what? Science is all about the details, not the titles of the chapters. Millions of details, in tens of thousands of scientific research papers and books, explain the discoveries of the science of geology.

You say the view of geologists that the earth is billions of years old and that our explanations are absurd, but we have millions of details, hundreds of chapters full of details that you have no better explanation for.

We are waiting for a better explanation.

When new discoveries are made, there are new details and if they contradict past discoveries, experiments are devised to find out why. Science is continuously fine tuning the details, refining our understanding of the details and correcting our mistaken understanding when necessary.

If you will not even try fill in the details of your chapters it makes it look like you do not have anything that is minimally plausible.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by Faith, posted 03-10-2015 11:19 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by Faith, posted 03-10-2015 3:51 PM Tanypteryx has responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2135
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.0


(1)
Message 86 of 155 (752351)
03-10-2015 4:40 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by Faith
03-10-2015 3:51 PM


Re: More Floody stuff from the other thread
Faith writes:

Anyway, how's about you acknowledge the absurdity of explaining the history of the earth in terms of layer upon layer of separate kinds of sedimentary rocks stacked miles deep for hundreds of millions or even billions of years up to our time when suddenly all this disturbance occurs, canyons are cut, mountains are built and so on.

You know that I could not possibly acknowledge that as absurd.

I just told you that there are millions of details, compiled by scientists for the last 2 centuries, that explain it in minute detail. It makes perfect sense. You are the only person on the planet Earth that cannot see the obvious conclusions that the sedimentary layers are the accumulations of millions of years.

You have not been paying attention. There is no sudden disturbance occurring now. You are just making that up. We have pointed out hundreds of times in dozens of threads that the geological processes of erosion and deposit and uplift have been happening for 4 billion plus years and the evidence is right there for anyone to see, buried in the rock layers.

You keep denying it is there but we have shown you photos of it over and over.

Anyway, how about you acknowledge the absurdity of explaining the history of the earth in terms of a one year global flood, that violates the laws of nature and all the principles of physics and that is completely contradicted by all the evidence that anyone can go and see.

This observation kills establishment geology so of course you can't see it.

Good Grief Faith! That is not an observation. It is a fantasy that you made up that is contradicted by actual observations, so of course I can't see it.

There is no such thing as establishment geology. That is just another thing you made up to try and bolster you crumbling fantasy.

Reality Faith, that is what we observe, and it kills your fantasy flood.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by Faith, posted 03-10-2015 3:51 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 90 by Faith, posted 03-10-2015 6:22 PM Tanypteryx has responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2135
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.0


(2)
Message 92 of 155 (752358)
03-10-2015 7:42 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by Faith
03-10-2015 6:22 PM


Re: More Floody stuff from the other thread
Faith writes:

Yes I know you can't see it. I didn't say the disturbance was occurring right now. It occurred after all the strata were in place though. I'm talking as usual about those neat layers you can see in the Grand Canyon that were laid down before the canyon was cut and all that erosion above the canyon to the Grand Staircase. Every time I contemplate it I wonder why nobody sees what I sere in it.

Well, I am glad you agree that disturbance cannot happen to the strata until after they exist. There is ample evidence that erosion and other disturbances have occurred on the surfaces of various layers before more sediment was deposited in the next layer. There is evidence of ancient riverbeds and canyons in ancient layers that are exposed by erosion so they are visible today. The neat layers you talk about are a figment of your imagination. It only appears that way if viewed from a long distance so the scale makes the imperfections invisible.

When did you visit and contemplate the Grand Canyon last? I visited it last Summer and in very few places are the layers nice and neat like you imagine.

I believe this pattern is true across the globe. Wherever there's a salt layer shown in cross section you can see for instance that the layers above it sag right along with the distortion it creates. That shouldn't be so if the layers were supposedly laid down over millions of years.

Why shouldn't it be so? What is your reasoning? How do you explain it then? I think Edge explained this a long time ago in one of the Grand Canyon threads. I think he said that because the salt is less dense than the overlying layers, it is deformed by the weight and pressure of them. We also know that the rock layers are not completely rigid and will sag rather than leave an empty void. It seems obvious that as the deposited sediment builds up over millions of years this would be the result. More and more weight bearing down on the salt.

The more recent layers should have a flat surface. And the salt should have long since dissipated too, through the domes it makes in the layers above, if we're talking millsions upon millions of years. All this seems quite open and shut to me.

What is the mechanism that makes the salt dissipate? Wait a minute.....the salt makes domes AND the layers above sag? I don't understand what you are saying here.

But there are places some point to that they think show disturbance during the laying down of the strata. Some of it's ambiguous, but really, there should be NO place on earth where the strata could have accumulated miles deep for thousands of years without being disturbed on the order of a huge canyon's being cut into them and huge quantities of matter eroded away such as we see at the Kaibab Plateau and the stairs of the Grand Staircase.

I am not sure where you are talking about here. What do you have that supports your idea that Grand Canyons must be eroded all over the planet, all the time. The Grand Canyon and the features of the Colorado Plateau are the result of a pretty unique set of conditions.

there should be NO place on earth where the strata could have accumulated miles deep for thousands of years

This is correct.

No one is saying that there is any place on the planet where strata miles of strata accumulated in thousands of years, except you.

It took many millions of years for strata to accumulate to miles of thickness and it takes millions more for it to erode away.

No one is saying that the strata were deposited all in one continuous sequence, without interruptions between the layers and erosion and other disturbances between periods of deposition, except you.

Faith writes:

It would be nice, though, if somebody would look at it and see what I see.

This is never going to happen, because what you say we should see DOES NOT EXIST. It is not reality.... it is just your imagination because you have never gone to the Grand Canyon and studied the actual strata. You base your whole vision on a few photographs and diagrams.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by Faith, posted 03-10-2015 6:22 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 100 by Faith, posted 03-10-2015 11:28 PM Tanypteryx has not yet responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2135
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 113 of 155 (752392)
03-11-2015 1:01 AM
Reply to: Message 109 by Coyote
03-10-2015 11:46 PM


For a scientist to debate these issues with Faith/faith is useless.
No amount of evidence will change a mind that is rusted shut.

You are right, of course. Sometimes I go a little crazy and waste a day. A little break from processing images.

I was remembering something funny today. While my grandson and I were on our way down to the Grand Canyon last summer, I told him quite a bit about Faith and her views about the geology of the Colorado Plateau. When we finally got to the Grand Canyon I kept thinking, "I wish Faith could see it from here."


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by Coyote, posted 03-10-2015 11:46 PM Coyote has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 115 by edge, posted 03-11-2015 1:09 AM Tanypteryx has responded
 Message 122 by herebedragons, posted 03-11-2015 10:39 AM Tanypteryx has acknowledged this reply

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2135
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 116 of 155 (752395)
03-11-2015 1:21 AM
Reply to: Message 115 by edge
03-11-2015 1:09 AM


we do everything to excess here, ... including YEC ...

That is for sure!

Even though you may not be able to educate Faith, I would like to thank you for the effort. I have learned a lot from your posts.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by edge, posted 03-11-2015 1:09 AM edge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 117 by edge, posted 03-11-2015 1:25 AM Tanypteryx has acknowledged this reply

  
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