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Author Topic:   The Bully Swarm Thread, off the Earth Science Curriculum thread
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 131 of 155 (752426)
03-11-2015 11:48 AM
Reply to: Message 130 by jar
03-11-2015 11:44 AM


Re: water runs down hill
Faith, that is the usual way strata are deposited. High spots get weathered and that material gets deposited in low spots.
Reality shows us that happening as well as core samples and mines and modern technology.
Excuse me but this is absurd. Why should the "high spots" contain one and only one sediment or at least the characteristic mix of sediments we find in some layers? And how after tumbling down from the high places to the low places does it sort itself into nice horizontal layers? And how over millions of years of slow deposition would it actually cover over a whole landscape and then become the extremely flat horizontal base for the deposition of the next layer. THIS IS FLAMING NONSENSE.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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 Message 130 by jar, posted 03-11-2015 11:44 AM jar has replied

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 133 of 155 (752428)
03-11-2015 11:58 AM
Reply to: Message 132 by edge
03-11-2015 11:51 AM


They show erosion. But I don't know what you mean by 'different'. What would you expect to see?
Something other than the mere shape of the terrain. Tree stumps perhaps, something to suggest the actual surface of the earth. Rivers run underground too so I would expect them to look like rivers on seismic imaging, but really nothing more than a channel that water flows through which could just as well be underground as above.
The absurdity of it all blows me away, sorry. Wish I could get it across better.

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 Message 132 by edge, posted 03-11-2015 11:51 AM edge has replied

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 Message 136 by edge, posted 03-11-2015 12:09 PM Faith has replied
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 138 of 155 (752439)
03-11-2015 12:33 PM
Reply to: Message 134 by edge
03-11-2015 12:01 PM


Re: More Floody stuff from the other thread
The Great Unconformity is like the disturbances that occurred after all the strata were laid down, ...
What disturbances are those?
You really don't ever read in context, do you? What's the point of talking to you if you can't follow the discussion? The Grand Canyon itself for the main one, the scouring off of the Kaibab Plateau, the cutting of the stairs of the Grand Staircase, Zion Canyon too, all that sort of thing that occurred after hundreds of millions of years of nice neat horizontal layering.
... it is not like the erosion between the layers.
How is it different? Please explain.
The erosion is an itty bitty bit of displaced sediment seen here and there, hardly visible from a distance, or even close up in many cases, and having no effect on the horizontality of the strata. The disturbances I'm talking about that came after the strata were in place displaced a lot of stuff, built mountains, carved out the canyons, moved tons of sediment, and in the case of the Great Unconformity tilted a whole slab of layers.
I think it did occur after the strata were laid down, but even if it occurred in the Precambrian time frame as you all think it did, it still leaves big questions about why there was such a huge long interval afterward when no such disturbances were occurring, hundreds of millions of years of placid surface conditions on this earth.
Why is that a problem? What principle do you use to say that any particular area must be disturbed or deformed?
1. Common sense.
2. The appearance of the surface of the earth now.
I guess that doesn't bother you, as I keep noting.
I have yet to see a reason why it should bother me. Is there a law that says every place on earth must be disturbed every few thousand years?
Considering the immense scale of the disturbances I'm talking about it's absolutely amazing nothing like them ever occurred during hundreds of millions of years of horizontal stacking of sediments. Mountains building, canyons cutting, so on and so forth. Sure you can rationalize it all away. You can and you do. But it's absurd. Just about NO activity for all those hundreds of millions of years, except a little dribbly bit of "erosion" here and there between layers, and then this massive massive amount of tectonic disturbance. Oh, just a big nothing, no problem.
I wish I could say it clearer about the salt layers. All the cross sections show sedimentary layers above the salt in perfectly typical arrangements as the strata normally form, except that all of them follow the sag of the salt layer. The way I would interpret this, of course, is that they were all laid down in the Flood, perfectly horizontal as usual, and then the salt got wet and started rising and the whole stack deformed along with it.
So, how do you deposit these salt layers in the middle of a global flood?
I don't know. I've suggested perhaps the salt leached out of sedimentary layers after they were laid down. But that's changing the subject. The problem I'm presenting here is a problem for YOUR scenario.
But on the theory of deposition over millions of years I have to suppose that the salt didn't start rising until all those other layers were in place above it. Is that the accepted timing?
Could be. However, the salt is probably still rising in some areas even though there is active sedimentation in the Gulf.
Sedimentation wouldn't stop it. But that sedimentation in the Gulf is also not depositing horizontally as it should, but following the slope of the sag of the salt layer as usual, which suggests that something else is going on. How long does it take for the salt to rise? Because of a disaster or near-disaster with a growing salt dome in Texas that I heard about a while back I suspect it doesn't take anything like millions of years.
There is no other way to account for their all following the contour of the sag, ....
That's not the point, however. No one says this did not happen.
That what did not happen? Do you have any clue to what I'm talking about?
... except that one does have to wonder how completely solidified rock could deform in such a plastic-looking way, one would think it would break.
They do. However, under the proper conditions of temperature, confining pressure and rate of deformation, all rocks are plastic.
Easy I'm sure to assume the proper conditions pertain wherever you see such plasticity in rocks.
But then if the salt began deforming and rising at any point before all those upper layers were in place, the usual timing of that process being many millions of years, then only those already in place would deform along with it and any layers deposited above that would fill in the sag and have the flat horizontal surface they always have.
If the rise stops that is what we would see.
It has nothing to do with the rise, this is about the timing of the laying down of the layers.
I'm probably not getting this said clearly enough. Your answers really didn't address anything I had in mind.
What we are asking is how the salt was deposited in the middle of a global flood.
No, that is not the question. The question is how the standard sedimentary strata could deposit over a sagging surface over millions of years and follow the sag contours rather than filling it in and presenting the usual horizontal flat surface. Since this isn't happening on any cross section I've seen I conclude no millions of years are involved at all, that this proves that the time frame for the deposition of the layers was much much shorter and probably occurred only a few thousand years ago.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by edge, posted 03-11-2015 12:01 PM edge has replied

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 139 of 155 (752440)
03-11-2015 12:36 PM
Reply to: Message 136 by edge
03-11-2015 12:09 PM


ETA: This is all an artifact of arguing from ignorance. You don't know much at all about your flood, or what it would produce or its effects, do you?
I know a lot more about it than the debunkers do. And as for arguing from ignorance, no doubt, but you are arguing from entrenched bias that can't see reality.
As always happens in discussions with you I find you obnoxious, unclear and unwilling to communicate. Apparently you are very touchy about being insulted. I'm sorry about that, but I get very tired of trying to talk to someone who has your attitude.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 136 by edge, posted 03-11-2015 12:09 PM edge has replied

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 140 of 155 (752442)
03-11-2015 12:38 PM
Reply to: Message 136 by edge
03-11-2015 12:09 PM


BIG underground rivers then. Sheesh.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 136 by edge, posted 03-11-2015 12:09 PM edge has replied

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 Message 144 by herebedragons, posted 03-11-2015 1:15 PM Faith has replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 147 of 155 (752455)
03-11-2015 1:36 PM
Reply to: Message 144 by herebedragons
03-11-2015 1:15 PM


I'm not interested in getting the terms right and finding out exactly what an underground river is. The point is that I see no reason to think of any of what is seismically imaged and called "ancient rivers" or "canyons" was ever on the surface.
I don't care that what I'm doing is not Science as you all so puristically insist it be done. If you want only scientists at EvC PUT UP A SIGN SAYING SO AND THE REST OF US WILL STAY AWAY.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 148 by Coyote, posted 03-11-2015 1:46 PM Faith has replied
 Message 151 by jar, posted 03-11-2015 2:02 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 152 by edge, posted 03-11-2015 2:48 PM Faith has not replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 149 of 155 (752457)
03-11-2015 1:49 PM
Reply to: Message 148 by Coyote
03-11-2015 1:46 PM


I make logical sense in plain English. I am not interested in scientific accuracy, only in getting across some perfectly logical observations. It's not hard to get with some good will and some suspension of the obsessive pedantry you all take for science. But as usual it's a lost cause as I knew anyway.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 148 by Coyote, posted 03-11-2015 1:46 PM Coyote has replied

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