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Author Topic:   Origin of the Flood Layers
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2277
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 166 of 409 (752718)
03-12-2015 3:02 PM
Reply to: Message 163 by Faith
03-12-2015 2:43 PM


I put time in on the issues that strike me as the best possibilities for making a case, and this isn't one of them.

Yeah, it is one of those pesky details that make the case against you.

it's just one of those thousands of claims that I can't spend my life on.

Interesting that you never want to spend any time on the thousands of pieces of evidence and conclusions drawn from them that your interpretations are pure fantasy. They just keep adding up and undermining your whole argument.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 163 by Faith, posted 03-12-2015 2:43 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 167 by Faith, posted 03-12-2015 3:08 PM Tanypteryx has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 32716
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 167 of 409 (752721)
03-12-2015 3:08 PM
Reply to: Message 166 by Tanypteryx
03-12-2015 3:02 PM


I spend a LOT of time where I think it will count most.

If I can't answer a particular allegation, it's not going to help my case to spend time on it, now is it?

I would think that even a diehard science pedant MIGHT, just once in a while, be able to understand the GOOD reasons why a creationist does what we do.

But I guess not.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 166 by Tanypteryx, posted 03-12-2015 3:02 PM Tanypteryx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 171 by Tanypteryx, posted 03-12-2015 3:25 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 174 by edge, posted 03-12-2015 3:31 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 185 by Tangle, posted 03-12-2015 3:51 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 187 by RAZD, posted 03-12-2015 4:12 PM Faith has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 32716
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 168 of 409 (752723)
03-12-2015 3:12 PM
Reply to: Message 152 by edge
03-11-2015 2:48 PM


So, how else would a river valley form at depth within the geological record?

Tectonic movement of rock underground, water running between layers. Guessing.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 152 by edge, posted 03-11-2015 2:48 PM edge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 176 by edge, posted 03-12-2015 3:34 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 191 by herebedragons, posted 03-12-2015 5:51 PM Faith has responded

    
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2277
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 169 of 409 (752725)
03-12-2015 3:18 PM
Reply to: Message 165 by Faith
03-12-2015 2:55 PM


It's not IMplausible, they can't say for sure can they? No, they only say it LOOKS LIKE stuff they've seen on the surface.

No one has got an explanation of a mechanism that could form those river valley like features except at the surface.

No one can point to a process that is creating river valley like features below the surface of the earth today.

We can see river valleys forming on the surface all over the planet today.

We can see dried up river valleys in deserts and drought areas today that are being slowly filled in be windblown material.

But you give us your usual knee-jerk disagreement with anything we say and you never offer a better explanation, let alone something plausible.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 165 by Faith, posted 03-12-2015 2:55 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 31193
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 170 of 409 (752726)
03-12-2015 3:21 PM
Reply to: Message 165 by Faith
03-12-2015 2:55 PM


of course they can say for sure.
Faith writes:

It's not IMplausible, they can't say for sure can they? No, they only say it LOOKS LIKE stuff they've seen on the surface.

Of course they can say for sure until you present a model, method, process or mechanism that can explain how such things can be created other than at the surface.

It really is that simple Faith.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 165 by Faith, posted 03-12-2015 2:55 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2277
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 171 of 409 (752727)
03-12-2015 3:25 PM
Reply to: Message 167 by Faith
03-12-2015 3:08 PM


I would think that even a diehard science pedant MIGHT, just once in a while, be able to understand the GOOD reasons why a creationist does what we do.

But I guess not.

None of us can understand why you make the same arguments over and over, when they have been poked so full of holes, that the holes are all that's left.

We can't believe your level of cognitive dissonance.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 167 by Faith, posted 03-12-2015 3:08 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
edge
Member
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002
Member Rating: 3.1


(1)
Message 172 of 409 (752728)
03-12-2015 3:27 PM
Reply to: Message 163 by Faith
03-12-2015 2:43 PM


You guys make WAY too much of such comments from me. The idea as I understood it was that it "looks like" phenomena on the surface and that was the entirety of the claim to evidence.

I'm not sure what the problem is with saying that the buried surface 'looks like' this chart. How do you think science should word it?

It turns out that we are pretty good at seismic interpretation. That's why they use it in the oil exploration business. We also use it to chart bathymetry, and we use the same principles for sonograms.

And I figured it wouldn't occur to them that possibly it never was on the surface so I very helpfully suggested that possibility.

Helpfully?

What would be helpful is if you explained what the heck you mean. Would it help you if I said that the Bible might be just a bunch of ancient myths?

There are so many claims for Old Earth Geology and against the Flood I have to pick and choose and that isn't one I'd expect to spend a lot of time on at this point so the suggestion that maybe the "river valley" was never on the surface is all I wanted to put out there.

And you expect us to just nod our heads in wonderment? This isn't a YEC prayer meeting, Faith.

If they'd claimed very rigorous open-and-shut evidence I might have spent some time on it.

You mean the kind of rigorous evidence you always provide to us?

Might. But as I said, it's just one of those thousands of claims that I can't spend my life on. I put time in on the issues that strike me as the best possibilities for making a case, and this isn't one of them.

Then you should prioritize more carefully. But my guess is that you just cant' help yourself whenever there is a chance to disagree with mainstream science.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 163 by Faith, posted 03-12-2015 2:43 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 177 by Faith, posted 03-12-2015 3:35 PM edge has responded
 Message 179 by Faith, posted 03-12-2015 3:40 PM edge has not yet responded

  
edge
Member
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 173 of 409 (752730)
03-12-2015 3:29 PM
Reply to: Message 165 by Faith
03-12-2015 2:55 PM


It's not IMplausible, they can't say for sure can they? No, they only say it LOOKS LIKE stuff they've seen on the surface.

Actually, we are pretty certain.

What is your level of acceptable certainty?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 165 by Faith, posted 03-12-2015 2:55 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 175 by Faith, posted 03-12-2015 3:33 PM edge has responded

  
edge
Member
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 174 of 409 (752731)
03-12-2015 3:31 PM
Reply to: Message 167 by Faith
03-12-2015 3:08 PM


I would think that even a diehard science pedant MIGHT, just once in a while, be able to understand the GOOD reasons why a creationist does what we do.

Oh, we understand why you do what you do. But it isn't good...
This message is a reply to:
 Message 167 by Faith, posted 03-12-2015 3:08 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 32716
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 175 of 409 (752733)
03-12-2015 3:33 PM
Reply to: Message 173 by edge
03-12-2015 3:29 PM


Actually, we are pretty certain.
What is your level of acceptable certainty?

Oh I'm sure you're pretty certain, you usually are. But I'm not arguing this point. I put out a suggestion, not meant to definitively answer anything, just to suggest that MAYBE there's another way to look at it. If it ever comes to arguing it, THEN I'll research it and assess your evidence. Is there something wrong with making suggestions?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 173 by edge, posted 03-12-2015 3:29 PM edge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 178 by edge, posted 03-12-2015 3:37 PM Faith has responded

    
edge
Member
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002
Member Rating: 3.1


(1)
Message 176 of 409 (752734)
03-12-2015 3:34 PM
Reply to: Message 168 by Faith
03-12-2015 3:12 PM


Tectonic movement of rock underground, ...

Do you have any idea what you just wrote?

... water running between layers. Guessing.

And that would give you a dendritic drainage pattern that cuts through multiple layers of rock?

So, how do those underwater rivers produce valleys that open upward, and then allow themselves to be filled in?

And yes, you are guessing. Actually, I would call it wishful guessing.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 168 by Faith, posted 03-12-2015 3:12 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 32716
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 177 of 409 (752736)
03-12-2015 3:35 PM
Reply to: Message 172 by edge
03-12-2015 3:27 PM


Then you should prioritize more carefully. But my guess is that you just cant' help yourself whenever there is a chance to disagree with mainstream science

There's some truth to that. I don't want to let too many assertions go by without some kind of response.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 172 by edge, posted 03-12-2015 3:27 PM edge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 181 by edge, posted 03-12-2015 3:41 PM Faith has responded

    
edge
Member
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 178 of 409 (752737)
03-12-2015 3:37 PM
Reply to: Message 175 by Faith
03-12-2015 3:33 PM


Oh I'm sure you're pretty certain, you usually are.

That is because I speak of things that I know.

But I'm not arguing this point. I put out a suggestion, not meant to definitively answer anything, just to suggest that MAYBE there's another way to look at it. If it ever comes to arguing it, THEN I'll research it and assess your evidence. Is there something wrong with making suggestions?

In a forum such as this one is usually expected to support his/her points. If you are unwilling to do so, it probably would be good to refrain from attempting that point.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 175 by Faith, posted 03-12-2015 3:33 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 180 by Faith, posted 03-12-2015 3:41 PM edge has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 32716
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 179 of 409 (752738)
03-12-2015 3:40 PM
Reply to: Message 172 by edge
03-12-2015 3:27 PM


I'm not sure what the problem is with saying that the buried surface 'looks like' this chart. How do you think science should word it?

I have no objection whatever to how it is worded. The point was that if it simply looks like something on the surface, then it's open to interpretation.

Helpfully?
What would be helpful is if you explained what the heck you mean.

A tongue in cheek remark, that's all. I guess I shouldn't risk moments of levity OR mere suggestions.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 172 by edge, posted 03-12-2015 3:27 PM edge has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 32716
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 180 of 409 (752740)
03-12-2015 3:41 PM
Reply to: Message 178 by edge
03-12-2015 3:37 PM


In a forum such as this one is usually expected to support his/her points. If you are unwilling to do so, it probably would be good to refrain from attempting that point.

It was supported by the fact that you aren't absolutely certain it was once surface. That leaves it open to interpretation.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 178 by edge, posted 03-12-2015 3:37 PM edge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 183 by edge, posted 03-12-2015 3:48 PM Faith has responded

    
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