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Author Topic:   Evidence that the Great Unconformity did not Form Before the Strata above it
Coyote
Member (Idle past 1418 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(3)
Message 35 of 1939 (752877)
03-14-2015 12:38 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by Faith
03-13-2015 8:21 PM


Re: where did it go?
My theory fits the conclusion that...

For a theory to be valid it must fit all the evidence, not some conclusion you have reached a priori.

In science, a theory is the single best explanation for a given set of facts. But, a theory also must be tested against the facts and survive those tests. And, a theory must also make predictions which in turn are tested and survive those tests. You have done neither.

What you have is not a theory. It is pure speculation designed to support a religious belief. Calling what you do "apologetics" would be much more accurate.

You are simply unwilling and unqualified to do anything resembling science, and you have shown this time and again with your posts.

Edited by Coyote, : speeling


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Faith, posted 03-13-2015 8:21 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by kbertsche, posted 03-14-2015 2:09 AM Coyote has seen this message but not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 1418 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 71 of 1939 (752948)
03-14-2015 7:38 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by Faith
03-14-2015 6:36 PM


Re: Bible claims vs. Science
Science is completely man-originated.

And rightly so. That means it doesn't have to kowtow to any of the made-up deities that humans have been saddled with for millennia.

I LIKE thinking about these things and I honestly think I've shown the falseness of a lot of the OE arguments.

Adhering to belief, rather than evidence, as you do, of course you think that. But when one studies the evidence, and follows where it leads, the opposite is true--as I have noted on several occasions, you are doing the exact opposite of science.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by Faith, posted 03-14-2015 6:36 PM Faith has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 1418 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 123 of 1939 (753026)
03-15-2015 10:14 PM
Reply to: Message 117 by Faith
03-15-2015 9:42 PM


Thanks for posting that cross section. I've seen it a million times without noticing that the G.U. was identified as the contact line.

You've been telling us how things have to be in geology and you are just now discovering what the G.U. is?

Your credibility would have dropped a few more notches, if that were possible.

What a joke!


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 117 by Faith, posted 03-15-2015 9:42 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 125 by Faith, posted 03-15-2015 10:45 PM Coyote has seen this message but not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 1418 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 128 of 1939 (753036)
03-16-2015 12:25 AM
Reply to: Message 126 by herebedragons
03-15-2015 11:29 PM


You don't still believe this do you???

Faith has to check with, and develop, her personal interpretation of scripture before she can address any real-world evidence that you present.

Your evidence doesn't matter. All that matters to Faith is scripture and her interpretation of it.

Faith doesn't know what the Great Unconformity is? No problem, its wrong anyway. And on learning what the definition is, she may choose to accept it or not, depending on how it affects her beliefs. Your evidence doesn't matter.

She doesn't know any geology? No problem, anything in geology that contradicts scripture is wrong. Faith doesn't care about the evidence, if one fantasy gets too much pushback she'll try another, and yet another, and so on, eventually cycling back to the first again as if nobody will notice. Belief is more powerful than evidence any day.

This resembles the traditional Christian apologetics. According to wiki, Christian apologetics is a field of Christian theology which attempts to present a rational basis for the Christian faith, defending the faith against objections.

But, can we coin a new word for what we see here, Christian apologistics? I propose the term Christian apologistics as a field of Christian theology which attempts to present a multitude of irrational bases for the Christian faith, defending the faith against objections.

And for this new term, Faith has earned the honor of being the poster-child.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by herebedragons, posted 03-15-2015 11:29 PM herebedragons has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 130 by kbertsche, posted 03-16-2015 12:51 AM Coyote has not replied
 Message 134 by herebedragons, posted 03-16-2015 10:21 AM Coyote has seen this message but not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 1418 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(2)
Message 192 of 1939 (753476)
03-20-2015 9:51 AM
Reply to: Message 190 by Faith
03-20-2015 3:14 AM


YEC and other fantasies
But while that's true of the Bible's descriptions of the heavens, it's not true of its statements about the creation of life and the age of the earth, which limit science to those statements.

No, it limits you to those statements.

It has no effect on science at all.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 190 by Faith, posted 03-20-2015 3:14 AM Faith has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 1418 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(2)
Message 441 of 1939 (754189)
03-24-2015 10:14 PM
Reply to: Message 437 by Faith
03-24-2015 6:12 PM


Re: miscommunications
Edge seems to completely misunderstand or not even be able to read at all, some descriptions I think are nothing but simple English.

The problem is not that you are using simple English, it is that you are rejecting established science on the basis of religious belief.

This leads you to make statements, come up with definitions, and argue fine points that have long since been settled in science--just because you can't accept the evidence.

It wouldn't matter whether you used simple English or the finest technical terms--your whole approach is to argue against established science, much of it up to 200 years old.

The problem is compounded by lack of knowledge of these technical fields, and absolute rejection of the findings they have made.

It is no wonder you have problems communicating: But I don't think simple English is the solution.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 437 by Faith, posted 03-24-2015 6:12 PM Faith has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 1418 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(3)
Message 637 of 1939 (754674)
03-29-2015 11:08 PM
Reply to: Message 636 by jar
03-29-2015 10:35 PM


Re: Flood pattern erosion-deposition
Of course there is absolutely no mention of volcanism in either of the Biblical flood myths and no mechanism for flooding causing volcanoes.

And the Egyptians, whose civilization and form of writing date back at least 5400 years, failed to mention all of that volcanism.

Come to think of it, they didn't mention the flood either.

And somehow they lived through all of it, as biblical scholars place the flood at about 4350 years ago. Hmmmm.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 636 by jar, posted 03-29-2015 10:35 PM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 641 by Faith, posted 03-30-2015 3:29 AM Coyote has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 1418 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 670 of 1939 (754742)
03-31-2015 11:15 AM


"Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast."

Alice


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.


  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 1418 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 756 of 1939 (754835)
03-31-2015 5:36 PM
Reply to: Message 753 by Faith
03-31-2015 5:06 PM


Re: (glass) houses
I'll say it again. NOBODY on your side has provided evidence. All you've provided is your allegiance to the silly idea that the strata represent time periods. That's just a statement of faith, it is not evidence and please stop claiming it is.

You can make that claim all you want, but you aren't convincing anyone. I wonder how much you are convincing yourself.

You have already claimed that only the bible represents evidence to you, so why do you even try to deal with science? I think it is in an attempt to bolster your beliefs--you have to keep fooling yourself that there is no evidence lest your beliefs begin to crumble.

The are whole libraries full of evidence, representing 200 years and more of geology. You can no more hand-wave all of that away than you can walk to the moon.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 753 by Faith, posted 03-31-2015 5:06 PM Faith has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 1418 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(2)
Message 774 of 1939 (754855)
03-31-2015 10:30 PM
Reply to: Message 771 by Faith
03-31-2015 10:13 PM


Re: houses
But Old Earthism and Evolution are just mental constructs that can't be proved.

Don't be such a mindless zealot.

You know that statement is untrue, so why do you persist in such nonsense?

You have been presented with a lot of evidence and you just attempt to hand-wave it away, as if that would make it go away. It doesn't.

Your "belief" has been shown to be in error--flat out wrong. OK, you don't accept that.

But your denial of evidence is not evidence, it's just laughably and demonstrably wrong.

Do you have evidence (other than religious belief) that you can share with us? Do you have any evidence that your belief describes anything approximating reality?


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 771 by Faith, posted 03-31-2015 10:13 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 776 by Faith, posted 03-31-2015 11:02 PM Coyote has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 1418 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 785 of 1939 (754869)
04-01-2015 12:31 AM
Reply to: Message 782 by Faith
04-01-2015 12:09 AM


If you are going to accuse me of not understanding something you need to provide more than your assertion. You need to describe or illustrate what you are talking about and quote me on it and show why I'm wrong. At least. I have no reason to believe that YOU understood anything I've said in this thread.

We no longer have a need to "understand" what you've said on this thread or any other.

You have made yourself perfectly clear over the years. We got the message a long time ago: "The Bible says it, I believe it, that settles it."

Any real world evidence slides off like water off a duck. Science is just something for you to try to use as a cover for your beliefs, even though what you do is the exact opposite of science.

I really don't know why we waste time trying to show you the evidence--you won't accept it anyway.

A mind like a steel trap--rusted shut!


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 782 by Faith, posted 04-01-2015 12:09 AM Faith has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 1418 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 868 of 1939 (755235)
04-06-2015 8:50 PM
Reply to: Message 867 by NosyNed
04-06-2015 6:54 PM


Re: Speed Assumptions
So you have to explain why the dating and the speed are both wrong...

And we need some explanation of why, when scientists started looking, everything suddenly came to a screeching halt and resumed the nice sedate speed that we see today.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 867 by NosyNed, posted 04-06-2015 6:54 PM NosyNed has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 1418 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 941 of 1939 (755498)
04-08-2015 8:55 PM
Reply to: Message 940 by Faith
04-08-2015 8:41 PM


Re: Summary of the topic of this thread
OE really has no better evidence than I have...

Faith, we love you but...


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 940 by Faith, posted 04-08-2015 8:41 PM Faith has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 1418 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 971 of 1939 (755634)
04-10-2015 9:19 AM
Reply to: Message 966 by dwise1
04-10-2015 12:20 AM


Faith writes:

Bunch of iddiotts frequent EvC who haven't a clue how to think hypothetically.


dwise 1 -- your excellent discussion of how scientists think hypothetically and then test their hypotheses misses the point of what Faith is doing.

What Faith means by "thinking hypothetically" is coming up with alternate explanations for scientific explanations--in other words, "what-ifs."

If she can come up with a "what-if" for a given situation, to her way of thinking that alternate explanation can be given equal or greater weight, and negates the scientific explanation. We have seen that time and again in these threads.

And if, by some chance, that "what-if" can be successfully disproved in these threads, then new "what-ifs" are a dime a dozen. So round and round we go.

As Heinlein noted, "Belief gets in the way of learning."


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 966 by dwise1, posted 04-10-2015 12:20 AM dwise1 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 976 by dwise1, posted 04-10-2015 12:16 PM Coyote has seen this message but not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 1418 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(2)
Message 1190 of 1939 (756177)
04-15-2015 7:49 PM


30 posts since this morning! And presumably still getting nowhere (I haven't bothered to even read them).

I'm abandoning this thread as a total waste of time.

Bah!


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.


  
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