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Author Topic:   Origin of the Flood Layers
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 296 of 409 (753397)
03-19-2015 2:40 PM
Reply to: Message 295 by JonF
03-19-2015 2:33 PM


Re: HOW I KNOW IT'S A DEPRESSION AND NOT A SHADOW
Your picture also shows that the Visnu Schist has been uplifted and eroded before the Tapeats sandstone was laid down. Also it shows that there is an angular unconformity.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 306 of 409 (753441)
03-19-2015 11:01 PM
Reply to: Message 305 by Faith
03-19-2015 10:29 PM


making sand
The question you need to answer Faith is "How do you make enough sand to create the Tapeats Sandstone in just 6000 years?"

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 324 of 409 (753471)
03-20-2015 9:33 AM


Moving forward.
So far all of the evidence presented seems to show that the Vishnu Schist exists, that the Super Group Layers exist and that the Tapeats Sandstone exists.
The question is "What was the origin, the process, the model, the method, the procedure, the mechanism that explains their origin?"
The conventional model for making schist involved compacting minerals at very high temperatures and pressures that align at least 50% of the mineral grains into thin layers. Most schists are made from clays and muds which means that they are the product of long term weathering and filtering. Schist is a Metamorphic rock.
Sandstone though is a sedimentary rock. They are made from cemented crystals of minerals or weathered rocks. The process involves laying down a layer of sand which then gets covered in turn, compacted and cemented by water and mineral precipitation. So three major steps are needed, first making, transporting and depositing the sand; then covering the sand by some other layer and finally the precipitation of minerals to cement the particles together.
To make this simple, let's ignore the Super Group and all the layers above the Tapeats Sandstone for the moment (but we will have to return to explain their existence) and simply look for a model that could create the Vishnu Schist and Tapeats Sandstone in only 6000 years or that might involve a flood.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Replies to this message:
 Message 327 by Faith, posted 03-20-2015 9:56 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 328 of 409 (753479)
03-20-2015 9:59 AM
Reply to: Message 327 by Faith
03-20-2015 9:56 AM


Re: Formation of schist etc.
But Faith, you still have not presented a model. Let's try baby steps.
How was the material (clays and mud) that make up the Vishnu Schist created?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 327 by Faith, posted 03-20-2015 9:56 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 330 by Faith, posted 03-20-2015 10:01 AM jar has replied
 Message 349 by Admin, posted 03-20-2015 11:05 AM jar has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 333 of 409 (753485)
03-20-2015 10:07 AM
Reply to: Message 330 by Faith
03-20-2015 10:01 AM


Re: Formation of schist etc.
I realize that you are not interested in answering the question yet the fact remains, the Vishnu Schist exists and conventional geology does explain its origin and the process that formed it.
How was the material (quartz sand) that make up the Tapeats Sandstone created?
Note that the materials that make up the Vishnu Schist are much finer than the material that makes up the Tapeats Sandstone and remember what you learned about hydrological sorting.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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 Message 330 by Faith, posted 03-20-2015 10:01 AM Faith has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 373 of 409 (753585)
03-20-2015 8:06 PM
Reply to: Message 371 by Faith
03-20-2015 8:00 PM


how do you make heat and pressure?
Faith writes:
Heat and pressure does it for me.
So how do you make heat and pressure?
How do you get a layer made from very fine metamorphosed mudstone and shale below a layer of far more coarse sandstone?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 371 by Faith, posted 03-20-2015 8:00 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 375 by Faith, posted 03-20-2015 9:49 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 377 of 409 (753594)
03-20-2015 10:08 PM
Reply to: Message 375 by Faith
03-20-2015 9:49 PM


Re: how do you make heat and pressure?
Faith writes:
I explained the heat and pressure back in that lengthy description I gave of the scenario I have in mind that Percy suggested you should take as my model.
As for the question about the laying down of different sediments let's not change the subject, OK?
We looked at your model and found that it was totally refuted by all of the evidence.
You did not explain either the heat or pressure and I'm not at all sure you have a clue what an explanation would be.
If you wish to show there was some pressure pushing up you need to provide the evidence of that pressure.
If you wish to claim magma is the source of the heat then you must explain why there is no sign of general heating from magma and why the magma is found as intrusions which show the Vishnu Schist existed before the magma.
And the different layers are NOT changing the subject, both the Vishnu Schist and the Tapeats Sandstone can be shown to exist.
But don't worry, once you provide an explanation of how those two layers could be created in 6000 years we will move on to the next issue.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 375 by Faith, posted 03-20-2015 9:49 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 378 by Faith, posted 03-20-2015 10:11 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 380 of 409 (753599)
03-20-2015 10:45 PM
Reply to: Message 378 by Faith
03-20-2015 10:11 PM


Re: how do you make heat and pressure?
Faith writes:
The Vishnu does not have to have existed AS SCHIST before the magma intrusions, just as rock rubble the magma plus weight from above then metamorphosed into schist.
You refuted nothing. In your dreams.
Stop and think Faith.
Schist is not made from rock rubble. It is made from mudstone or shale and that requires weathering other rocks to produce the fine material that becomes shale or mudstone.
So your explanation needs to show how the original material was produced.
The magma was in the form of intrusions an so it did have to be schist before the intrusion. Otherwise the material surrounding the intrusion would be something other than schist.
If you wish to apply pressure from above you need to provide the model, method, mechanism, process or procedure that produces the material and deposits it above.
How long will it take to produce the mudstone or shale, to bury it deep enough to create temperatures and pressures needed to convert them into schist.
So let's talk about the weight from above.
We know the Vishnu Schist was definitely schist before the Tapeats Sandstone was laid down.
So walk us through what could have compressed the shale or mudstone heating and converting it into schist since the Tapeats Layer was not there?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 378 by Faith, posted 03-20-2015 10:11 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 383 by Faith, posted 03-20-2015 10:58 PM jar has replied
 Message 384 by Adminnemooseus, posted 03-20-2015 11:01 PM jar has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 387 of 409 (753607)
03-20-2015 11:05 PM
Reply to: Message 383 by Faith
03-20-2015 10:58 PM


Re: how do you make heat and pressure?
Faith writes:
No it wouldn't. The magma intrusion baked whatever it was into schist.
That is just silly Faith, really silly and again, all of the evidence says 'Taint so!'.
If the magma baked whatever it was into schist then you would see some relationship to a common heat source for all of the schist, but like the shot that missed the target, that evidence is simply not there.
And you still have not provided the model, mechanism, method, process or procedure to produce the original mudstone or shale or the materials in your what-ifs that would have provided the pressure needed to convert the mudstone or shale into schist.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 383 by Faith, posted 03-20-2015 10:58 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 388 by Faith, posted 03-20-2015 11:10 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 400 of 409 (753634)
03-21-2015 9:11 AM
Reply to: Message 388 by Faith
03-20-2015 11:10 PM


Re: how do you make heat and pressure?
Faith writes:
Even geologist edge didn't say it was completely out of the question that the magma could have caused the schist, though he gave some technical reasons why he doesn't think that is what happened.
No, he said that the evidence shows it was not the magma intrusions.
Faith writes:
And it's the COMBINATION of the heat from the magma PLUS the enormous weight of the three-mile stack of strata above that I proposed were the two factors that turned the original rock into schist.
So you are including some three miles of material above the Vishnu Schist to turn the mudstone or shale into schist.
That is five as long as you can provide the model, method, process, procedure or mechanism that explains the creation of each layer in that three mile expanse of material.
Faith writes:
"Common source of heat for all the schist?" I believe that is plentiful wherever there is schist in the canyon because granite is usually associated with it.
I was trying to at least give you a chance but you just make your position weaker and weaker. Now you want to also add the Zoroaster Granite. So you will also need to present the model. method, process, procedure or mechanism that creates the Zoroaster Granite. Now it happen to be younger than the Vishnu Schist.
But remember, schist and granite and sandstone are different things.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 388 by Faith, posted 03-20-2015 11:10 PM Faith has not replied

  
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