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Author Topic:   Presbyterian Church approves of same-sex marriages
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 31 of 123 (753415)
03-19-2015 5:51 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Phat
03-19-2015 8:10 AM


Re: Club Rules
Flesh gives birth to flesh and Spirit to spirit.
Well, yeah; they're completely different.
That was my point.
What I dont expect nor accept is a couple in church limiting themselves to carnal expression.
I suppose church would be the wrong place for carnal expression. But there're plenty of other places for them to do it...
I see no point nor purpose for marriage between two men.
You keep repeating that, but you keep providing no reason.
That is, for the record, my opinion.
That's fine, but for the sake of clarity don't you think you could provide some reasons for that opinion?

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Phat, posted 03-19-2015 8:10 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by Phat, posted 03-20-2015 12:56 PM Jon has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 32 of 123 (753531)
03-20-2015 12:56 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by Jon
03-19-2015 5:51 PM


Phats Opinion
for the sake of clarity don't you think you could provide some reasons for that opinion?
Sure. When I say I see no point for marriage between two men, I shuld say that I do see the legal and financial advantages...and that society should treat all people fairly and not favor married folks economically---hence the need for a marriage, I suppose.
my issue is with the church itself, and its relationship with parishioners.
The church should encourage everyone---not just gays--to fight sins of the flesh. This is why I see no need for two men to get married...apart from the reasons I mentioned. Why cant two men simply live together(as brothers and spiritual lovers) if they so wish? The only issue I have here is selfishness. Why limit your love to just one man?(apart from Jesus, of course)

Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo
It's easy to see the speck in somebody else's ideas - unless it's blocked by the beam in your own.~Ringo
If a savage stops believing in his wooden god, it does not mean that there is no God only that God is not wooden.(Leo Tolstoy)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Jon, posted 03-19-2015 5:51 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by Jon, posted 03-20-2015 1:01 PM Phat has replied
 Message 37 by NoNukes, posted 03-20-2015 1:19 PM Phat has replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 33 of 123 (753532)
03-20-2015 1:01 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by Phat
03-20-2015 12:56 PM


Re: Phats Opinion
Why limit your love to just one man?
So you'd be okay with polyamorous homosexuality?

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Phat, posted 03-20-2015 12:56 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by Phat, posted 03-20-2015 1:05 PM Jon has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 34 of 123 (753533)
03-20-2015 1:05 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by Jon
03-20-2015 1:01 PM


Re: Phats Opinion
the term means "with more than one"...right?
perhaps we should define homosexuality.
To me it means same gender attraction.
Same gender attraction is inborn and cannot be helped.
Actions, however...can be helped.
For a man to love more than one man in no way implies that sex is even part of the equation.
Why should it be?

Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo
It's easy to see the speck in somebody else's ideas - unless it's blocked by the beam in your own.~Ringo
If a savage stops believing in his wooden god, it does not mean that there is no God only that God is not wooden.(Leo Tolstoy)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Jon, posted 03-20-2015 1:01 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by Jon, posted 03-20-2015 1:09 PM Phat has replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 35 of 123 (753534)
03-20-2015 1:09 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by Phat
03-20-2015 1:05 PM


Re: Phats Opinion
For a man to love more than one man in no way implies that sex is even part of the equation.
Why should it be?
So these men should remain chaste their whole lives?

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Phat, posted 03-20-2015 1:05 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by Phat, posted 03-20-2015 1:13 PM Jon has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 36 of 123 (753537)
03-20-2015 1:13 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by Jon
03-20-2015 1:09 PM


Re: Phats Opinion
Again...lets define terms. What does chaste even mean?

Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo
It's easy to see the speck in somebody else's ideas - unless it's blocked by the beam in your own.~Ringo
If a savage stops believing in his wooden god, it does not mean that there is no God only that God is not wooden.(Leo Tolstoy)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Jon, posted 03-20-2015 1:09 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by Jon, posted 03-20-2015 1:54 PM Phat has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 37 of 123 (753539)
03-20-2015 1:19 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by Phat
03-20-2015 12:56 PM


Re: Phats Opinion
The only issue I have here is selfishness.
Do you not understand the serious logical problems that people have pointed out with your 'only issue'.
Two men who commit to each other are no more limiting in their love than a man and a woman who commit to each other. Neither couple is committing to limit their love nobody else but their spouses.
A man who marries a man does not eliminate having a relationship with all other men. He is instead excluding having a intimate, spousal relationship with all other men and of course all other women. In what way is that more selfish that what happens in every other married relationship?
Why limit your love to just one man?(apart from Jesus, of course)
Second question. Did Jesus tell people to limit their love to only him? What kind of BS are you pushing with this comment?

Je Suis Charlie
Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Phat, posted 03-20-2015 12:56 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by Phat, posted 03-20-2015 1:24 PM NoNukes has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 38 of 123 (753543)
03-20-2015 1:24 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by NoNukes
03-20-2015 1:19 PM


Re: Phats Opinion
Did Jesus tell people to limit their love to only him? What kind of BS are you pushing with this comment?
A man who loves Jesus first...with his whole heart, soul, mind and strength has no need of another man to idolize, fantasize over and worship.(nor to need sex)
Do you have a problem with loving God with your whole heart, soul, mind, and strength?

Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo
It's easy to see the speck in somebody else's ideas - unless it's blocked by the beam in your own.~Ringo
If a savage stops believing in his wooden god, it does not mean that there is no God only that God is not wooden.(Leo Tolstoy)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by NoNukes, posted 03-20-2015 1:19 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-20-2015 1:28 PM Phat has replied
 Message 41 by jar, posted 03-20-2015 2:07 PM Phat has replied
 Message 42 by NoNukes, posted 03-20-2015 2:51 PM Phat has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 39 of 123 (753544)
03-20-2015 1:28 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by Phat
03-20-2015 1:24 PM


Re: Phats Opinion
A man who loves Jesus first...with his whole heart, soul, mind and strength has no need of another man to idolize, fantasize over and worship.(nor to need sex)
By that logic, women shouldn't marry men either.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Phat, posted 03-20-2015 1:24 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by NoNukes, posted 03-20-2015 2:55 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied
 Message 46 by Phat, posted 03-20-2015 3:00 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 40 of 123 (753549)
03-20-2015 1:54 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by Phat
03-20-2015 1:13 PM


Re: Phats Opinion
How many times do you quote dictionaries on this site, and now you can't be bothered to use one to look up something as simple as a single word?
Adjective
chaste
(comparative chaster, superlative chastest)
  1. abstaining from sexual intercourse, celibate
 - from Wiktionary

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by Phat, posted 03-20-2015 1:13 PM Phat has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 41 of 123 (753552)
03-20-2015 2:07 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by Phat
03-20-2015 1:24 PM


Re: Phats Opinion
Phat writes:
Do you have a problem with loving God with your whole heart, soul, mind, and strength?
What the hell does that even mean?
How would that exclude loving anyone else?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Phat, posted 03-20-2015 1:24 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by Phat, posted 03-20-2015 2:57 PM jar has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 42 of 123 (753556)
03-20-2015 2:51 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by Phat
03-20-2015 1:24 PM


Re: Phats Opinion
A man who loves Jesus first...with his whole heart, soul, mind and strength has no need of another man to idolize, fantasize over and worship.(nor to need sex)
Do you have a problem with loving God with your whole heart, soul, mind, and strength?
And what was the second great commandment, Phat? Wasn't it to love your neighbor?
And is a marriage a worship of a man or woman? You still are not making much sense.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Je Suis Charlie
Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Phat, posted 03-20-2015 1:24 PM Phat has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 43 of 123 (753558)
03-20-2015 2:55 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by New Cat's Eye
03-20-2015 1:28 PM


Re: Phats Opinion
Phat writes:
A man who loves Jesus first...with his whole heart, soul, mind and strength has no need of another man to idolize, fantasize over and worship.(nor to need sex)
Cat sci writes:
By that logic, women shouldn't marry men either.
That's right. According to Phat being distracted to men other than Jesus is selfish. Only women can marry, but they should marry women.

Je Suis Charlie
Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-20-2015 1:28 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 44 of 123 (753559)
03-20-2015 2:57 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by jar
03-20-2015 2:07 PM


Re: Phats Opinion
jar writes:
What the hell does that even mean?
How would that exclude loving anyone else?
The problem here---as I see it---is that you people don't understand the basic differences between needs and wants.

Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo
It's easy to see the speck in somebody else's ideas - unless it's blocked by the beam in your own.~Ringo
If a savage stops believing in his wooden god, it does not mean that there is no God only that God is not wooden.(Leo Tolstoy)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by jar, posted 03-20-2015 2:07 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by jar, posted 03-20-2015 2:58 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 58 by ringo, posted 03-21-2015 12:26 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 45 of 123 (753561)
03-20-2015 2:58 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by Phat
03-20-2015 2:57 PM


Re: Phats Opinion
Phat writes:
The problem here---as I see it---is that you people don't understand the basic differences between needs and wants.
And yet another "What the hell does that mean or have to do with the topic" response from you.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by Phat, posted 03-20-2015 2:57 PM Phat has not replied

  
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