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Author Topic:   Presbyterian Church approves of same-sex marriages
Jon
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 76 of 123 (753760)
03-21-2015 10:05 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by New Cat's Eye
03-21-2015 9:47 PM


Re: A Distinction with a Difference
I think xongsmith was pointing out that straight couples often end up with children they don't want, many times cannot afford, and are unprepared to raise.
Homosexual couples don't have that problem, and so, contrary to the utterly stupid shit Phat's been spewing into this thread, homosexuals are as equipped asif not more thanheterosexual couples when it comes to raising a family.

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-21-2015 9:47 PM New Cat's Eye has seen this message but not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 77 of 123 (753769)
03-22-2015 1:10 AM
Reply to: Message 69 by subbie
03-21-2015 8:10 PM


Re: Phats Opinion
Well, there were Christians who DID stand against those things. It IS what we're supposed to do, though many may fail at it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by subbie, posted 03-21-2015 8:10 PM subbie has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
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NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 78 of 123 (753770)
03-22-2015 5:35 AM
Reply to: Message 70 by Jon
03-21-2015 8:50 PM


Re: A Distinction with a Difference
Yes; but the children they have are all wanted.
Whether or not the children are wanted is something that sometimes changes over the children's lifetime. Yes, they were wanted at conception, but at birth? Five years later? When the children become awful teenagers? Or serial killers?
I think Cat Sci has a point. The idea that the children of homosexual parents are always wanted was just a sound bite.

Je Suis Charlie
Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by Jon, posted 03-21-2015 8:50 PM Jon has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 80 by xongsmith, posted 03-22-2015 1:13 PM NoNukes has replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 79 of 123 (753784)
03-22-2015 9:53 AM
Reply to: Message 77 by Faith
03-22-2015 1:10 AM


Re: Phats Opinion
It IS what we're supposed to do, though many may fail at it.
All so far have; and lets hope that all continue to.

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by Faith, posted 03-22-2015 1:10 AM Faith has not replied

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2578
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 6.8


(3)
Message 80 of 123 (753799)
03-22-2015 1:13 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by NoNukes
03-22-2015 5:35 AM


Re: A Distinction with a Difference
NoNukes writes:
Whether or not the children are wanted is something that sometimes changes over the children's lifetime. Yes, they were wanted at conception, but at birth? Five years later? When the children become awful teenagers? Or serial killers?
I think Cat Sci has a point. The idea that the children of homosexual parents are always wanted was just a sound bite.
Same-sex marriages, with the exception of rape, either have to arrange a surrogate mother or a donor male or go through the bureaucratic complications of adoption. This is not something you would casually get into, no?
It may come off as a soundbite, but it's my soundbite.

- xongsmith, 5.7d

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by NoNukes, posted 03-22-2015 5:35 AM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 82 by NoNukes, posted 03-22-2015 5:54 PM xongsmith has seen this message but not replied
 Message 83 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-23-2015 9:48 AM xongsmith has replied

  
coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 477 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


(1)
Message 81 of 123 (753826)
03-22-2015 3:43 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by Phat
03-21-2015 3:19 AM


Re: Phats Opinion
Phat writes
quote:
No on all three.
Your answer confirms what I suspected from the posts you've made on the subject matter.
Actually, to those of us who have been or are in long term partnership, it's pretty obvious...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by Phat, posted 03-21-2015 3:19 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 82 of 123 (753835)
03-22-2015 5:54 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by xongsmith
03-22-2015 1:13 PM


Re: A Distinction with a Difference
Same-sex marriages, with the exception of rape, either have to arrange a surrogate mother or a donor male or go through the bureaucratic complications of adoption.
"Donor male" covers a lot of possibilities including being unfaithful and thus having an unwanted pregnancy.
Besides that, I stand by my comment that not all wanted children remain wanted. Yeah I'll agree that sex between same sex couples does not result in pregnancy if that is your point.
Surely you heard in about the couple who had engaged a surrogate mother and then refused to take one of the two offspring because that child had Down's syndrome? That could just as easily happened to a homosexual couple as a heterosexual one.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Je Suis Charlie
Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by xongsmith, posted 03-22-2015 1:13 PM xongsmith has seen this message but not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 83 of 123 (753889)
03-23-2015 9:48 AM
Reply to: Message 80 by xongsmith
03-22-2015 1:13 PM


Re: A Distinction with a Difference
Same-sex marriages, with the exception of rape, either have to arrange a surrogate mother or a donor male or go through the bureaucratic complications of adoption.
There are tons of people who have had children before they got into same-sex relationships.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by xongsmith, posted 03-22-2015 1:13 PM xongsmith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by xongsmith, posted 03-23-2015 11:11 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2578
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 6.8


Message 84 of 123 (753911)
03-23-2015 11:11 AM
Reply to: Message 83 by New Cat's Eye
03-23-2015 9:48 AM


Re: A Distinction with a Difference
Cat's Eye points out:
There are tons of people who have had children before they got into same-sex relationships.
Well, sure, but those weren't children for a same-sex couple.

- xongsmith, 5.7d

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-23-2015 9:48 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-23-2015 11:22 AM xongsmith has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 85 of 123 (753913)
03-23-2015 11:22 AM
Reply to: Message 84 by xongsmith
03-23-2015 11:11 AM


Re: A Distinction with a Difference
There are tons of people who have had children before they got into same-sex relationships.
Well, sure, but those weren't children for a same-sex couple.
ಠ_ಠ
quote:
there are no unwanted children in same-sex marriages.
That's just not true, why are you trying to stand by it?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by xongsmith, posted 03-23-2015 11:11 AM xongsmith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 86 by Phat, posted 03-23-2015 11:32 AM New Cat's Eye has seen this message but not replied
 Message 89 by xongsmith, posted 03-23-2015 2:29 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 86 of 123 (753917)
03-23-2015 11:32 AM
Reply to: Message 85 by New Cat's Eye
03-23-2015 11:22 AM


Re: A Distinction with a Difference
I personally believe that a child needs a mother. Even if I were in a same sex marriage I would want this for my child.

Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo
It's easy to see the speck in somebody else's ideas - unless it's blocked by the beam in your own.~Ringo
If a savage stops believing in his wooden god, it does not mean that there is no God only that God is not wooden.(Leo Tolstoy)

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 87 by Theodoric, posted 03-23-2015 11:44 AM Phat has replied
 Message 88 by ringo, posted 03-23-2015 1:00 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 91 by Jon, posted 03-23-2015 5:37 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 87 of 123 (753921)
03-23-2015 11:44 AM
Reply to: Message 86 by Phat
03-23-2015 11:32 AM


Re: A Distinction with a Difference
Your beliefs have no effect on reality and evidently reality has no effect on your beliefs.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by Phat, posted 03-23-2015 11:32 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 93 by Phat, posted 03-23-2015 6:08 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 88 of 123 (753935)
03-23-2015 1:00 PM
Reply to: Message 86 by Phat
03-23-2015 11:32 AM


Re: A Distinction with a Difference
Phat writes:
I personally believe that a child needs a mother.
So lesbian marriages are cool then.
I personally believe that a child is lucky enough to have one good parent. Two or more is a bonus, no matter what gender.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by Phat, posted 03-23-2015 11:32 AM Phat has not replied

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2578
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 6.8


(1)
Message 89 of 123 (753945)
03-23-2015 2:29 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by New Cat's Eye
03-23-2015 11:22 AM


Re: A Distinction with a Difference
Cat's Eye persists:
quote:
there are no unwanted children in same-sex marriages.
That's just not true, why are you trying to stand by it?
Okay, it's my soundbite and you know what I meant. If you wish, I could rephrase it something like this:
Once married, a same-sex marriage is almost never, compared to heterosexual marriages, going to have an unwanted child
Jeezo. If you still don't know the little pointette I was going for, then your avatar name just might be aptly chosen.
But never mind this. It's too small an issue, a skid mark on the road, if you will. All is forgiven.

- xongsmith, 5.7d

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-23-2015 11:22 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 90 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-23-2015 3:22 PM xongsmith has seen this message but not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 90 of 123 (753954)
03-23-2015 3:22 PM
Reply to: Message 89 by xongsmith
03-23-2015 2:29 PM


Re: A Distinction with a Difference
you know what I meant
I honestly did not.
If you wish, I could rephrase it something like this:
Once married, a same-sex marriage is almost never, compared to heterosexual marriages, going to have an unwanted child
Jeezo.
Still isn't really working for me.
Maybe its the fact that a good friend of mine has a mother who ran off to be with another woman and doesn't talk to him anymore. (to be fair, I think it has more to do with his father than him)
Being gay doesn't mean that you have to want your child.
Being gay doesn't mean that you can't have children.
The only thing you have going for you is that gay sex can't produce children. But that is no basis on which to determine whether or not gay peoples' children are wanted.
You should just stop associating the two, even if your intentions are good.
How many gay people were effectively "forced" into heterosexual marriages, and had children, only later to be able to be true to themselves and come out as gay?
Sugar-coating that fact away is not something you should be doing.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by xongsmith, posted 03-23-2015 2:29 PM xongsmith has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 92 by Jon, posted 03-23-2015 5:44 PM New Cat's Eye has replied
 Message 97 by RAZD, posted 03-25-2015 7:14 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
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