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Author Topic:   Evidence that the Great Unconformity did not Form Before the Strata above it
edge
Member (Idle past 974 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 271 of 1939 (753806)
03-22-2015 1:28 PM
Reply to: Message 267 by Faith
03-22-2015 1:20 PM


Oh good grief. Why is this so difficul?. It wouldn't erode flat if it was tilted, but even if it was tilted it would be nothing like tilted STRATA.

But it is tilted. Do you know how I can tell? Do you think I would have shown you this picture if I didn't check?

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edge
Member (Idle past 974 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


(1)
Message 272 of 1939 (753807)
03-22-2015 1:32 PM
Reply to: Message 268 by Faith
03-22-2015 1:21 PM


Stand them upright or on a tilt and see if they'll erode flat on the top the way the tilted strata at the base of the G.U. have flat surfaces.

The are standing upright, or nearly so.

Or have you just moved the goal posts again. Now the layers have to be vertical?

Are we going to spend the next 3 pages of this thread debating what is 'tilted'?


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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 712 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 273 of 1939 (753808)
03-22-2015 1:33 PM
Reply to: Message 270 by edge
03-22-2015 1:26 PM


You've given a series of straw man answers. Nothing but denial and evasion. But what on earth could I possibly have expected here anyway? Masters of obfuscation.

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edge
Member (Idle past 974 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 274 of 1939 (753809)
03-22-2015 1:38 PM
Reply to: Message 273 by Faith
03-22-2015 1:33 PM


You've given a series of straw man answers.

How so?

You wanted flat surfaces eroded into dipping strata.

What did I miss?

Nothing but denial and evasion.

What did I deny?

But what on earth could I possibly have expected here anyway? Masters of obfuscation.

Well, one thing we have learned to not expect is civil discourse.

Why not address my images?


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 Message 275 by Faith, posted 03-22-2015 1:48 PM edge has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 712 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 275 of 1939 (753810)
03-22-2015 1:48 PM
Reply to: Message 274 by edge
03-22-2015 1:38 PM


Your last image is of a naturally occurring flat surface as is the other one you posted of a cliff behind a beach. What's the rock?

The image of the strata is just weird. They are jagged and they are not upright or tilted so the jagged ends of the strata could be eroded to a flat horizontal surface.

You either don't understand the problem or you are intentionally obfuscating.

I refer you back to Message 213.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 712 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 276 of 1939 (753811)
03-22-2015 2:02 PM
Reply to: Message 275 by Faith
03-22-2015 1:48 PM


Find something like this with a flat horizontal surface without the upper strata:

OR this one:

Just the tilted lower part without the upper. It's got to have a level upper surface.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


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edge
Member (Idle past 974 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


(1)
Message 277 of 1939 (753813)
03-22-2015 2:20 PM
Reply to: Message 276 by Faith
03-22-2015 2:02 PM


Find something like this with a flat horizontal surface without the upper strata:

Like I said, 'flat' is relative to scale. If you look closely at that surface, it's not exactly table-top flat, certainly not more so than some of the pictures I have provided.

Besides, who is saying that unconformities are table-top flat? Besides you?


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edge
Member (Idle past 974 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


(1)
Message 278 of 1939 (753814)
03-22-2015 2:29 PM
Reply to: Message 275 by Faith
03-22-2015 1:48 PM


Your last image is of a naturally occurring flat surface as is the other one you posted of a cliff behind a beach. What's the rock?

So you are saying that erosion is not a natural phenomenon?

How do you think those layers (some kind of metasediments) got truncated at the top?


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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 712 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 279 of 1939 (753815)
03-22-2015 2:43 PM
Reply to: Message 277 by edge
03-22-2015 2:20 PM


I'm not concerned about how table-top flat the surface is, it's flat enough in your pictures but they are of the kind of rock that would have a naturally occurring flat upper surface. ABE: Strata depositing on top of such a natural flat surface would not create an angular unconformity.

The problem is that you don't have pictures of tilted strata such as the G.U. has as its base. OR of lumpy rock like schist which is its base in other pictures.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


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herebedragons
Member (Idle past 125 days)
Posts: 1517
From: Michigan
Joined: 11-22-2009


(1)
Message 280 of 1939 (753816)
03-22-2015 2:52 PM
Reply to: Message 276 by Faith
03-22-2015 2:02 PM


I am not sure why it can't have strata above it. Does the strata above somehow flatten it? But how about these?

They all have tilted strata, no horizontal strata on top of them and are as flat as the GU.

What else?

HBD


Whoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca

"Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem.

Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 276 by Faith, posted 03-22-2015 2:02 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
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edge
Member (Idle past 974 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


(1)
Message 281 of 1939 (753817)
03-22-2015 3:00 PM
Reply to: Message 279 by Faith
03-22-2015 2:43 PM


The problem is that you don't have pictures of tilted strata such as the G.U. has as its base. OR of lumpy rock like schist which is its base in other pictures.

Actually, they are tilted as the yellow highlighted layers show in this picture. The lighter colored bands are the surfaces of bedding planes tilted to the left and reflecting light from that direction.

I'm not concerned about how table-top flat the surface is, it's flat enough in your pictures but they are of the kind of rock that would have a naturally occurring flat upper surface.

Of course they are naturally occurring. What do you mean?

ABE: Strata depositing on top of such a natural flat surface would not create an angular unconformity.

As I have said, I chose all photos to show tilted strata. You can deny that all you want, but it just isn't so. Even in the gently dipping case, the layers show patterns that indicate the layers are not parallel to the weathered surface.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 712 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 282 of 1939 (753818)
03-22-2015 3:04 PM
Reply to: Message 280 by herebedragons
03-22-2015 2:52 PM


I am not sure why it can't have strata above it. Does the strata above somehow flatten it? But how about these

Because we want to show the base before it became an angular unconformity, since my claim is that the base would not have been eroded to the level straightness seen in the G.U. before the strata above were deposited on it.

The other pictures are pretty good, except the first one and that farm, but I would guess they were all once angular unconformities and not just eroded tilted strata.

However, you came up with some examples so you win.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


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herebedragons
Member (Idle past 125 days)
Posts: 1517
From: Michigan
Joined: 11-22-2009


(1)
Message 283 of 1939 (753819)
03-22-2015 3:13 PM
Reply to: Message 259 by Faith
03-22-2015 12:33 PM


Something else explains those flat contacts we see in the Great Unconformity.

I would like to hear what this "something else" might be. I have an idea what you have in mind, but would rather you describe it before I guess at what you're thinking.

Also keep in mind that any surface exposed to erosion today is in the process of being eroded. Erosion is not finished sculpting it. Deposition will not begin until the surface is low enough to begin accumulating sediment.

HBD


Whoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca

"Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem.

Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 259 by Faith, posted 03-22-2015 12:33 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 285 by Faith, posted 03-22-2015 3:27 PM herebedragons has taken no action

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 319 days)
Posts: 16112
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 284 of 1939 (753821)
03-22-2015 3:16 PM
Reply to: Message 279 by Faith
03-22-2015 2:43 PM


So we'd be looking for something like this ...

Or this ...

Or this ...

Or this ...

Or this ...

Or the flat bits of this ...

Or this ...

Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.


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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 712 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 285 of 1939 (753824)
03-22-2015 3:27 PM
Reply to: Message 283 by herebedragons
03-22-2015 3:13 PM


Something else explains those flat contacts we see in the Great Unconformity.

I would like to hear what this "something else" might be. I have an idea what you have in mind, but would rather you describe it before I guess at what you're thinking.

I've given my own scenario a million times already: After ALL the strata had been laid down, tectonic movement at the level of the basement rocks pushed them into folds that were sheared off by abrasion in contact with the upper strata at a point where the resistance of the weight above equaled the force from beneath, leaving the upper block of strata intact.

That's the only alternative scenario I can think of, but perhaps there are others.

Also keep in mind that any surface exposed to erosion today is in the process of being eroded. Erosion is not finished sculpting it. Deposition will not begin until the surface is low enough to begin accumulating sediment.

The lines I drew on the G.U. in Message 213 suggest to me a horizontal level straightness that erosion could never accomplish, but I've done all I can to argue this point so it's over. Edge never understood it, at least you finally did, but this has been just about the most frustrating and unrewarding discussion I've ever had here and I don't want another one.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : REWORD FOR CLARITY


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